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Vancian? Why can't we let it go?
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<blockquote data-quote="Pilgrim" data-source="post: 5777511" data-attributes="member: 6680799"><p>If what you say you believe to be true, then I high doubt your credibility where D&D is concerned. 4E was WotCs end-all-be-all for attracting modern gamers to the D&D scene. In case you've missed it, it didn't work out as well as WotC would have liked, which leads me to believe that what you say is majorly flawed in both reasoning and logic.</p><p></p><p>Survive? Since when does D&D have to survive? It's not about survival, it's about fun. If there were enough players having fun playing 4E and enough new players interested in 4E, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation because the popularity of 4E would be such that there was no need for D&D Next. </p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, that isn't the case. The ideologies of 4E did not, for whatever reason, meet the expectation of the designers and have come up short, at least enough that they felt a new iteration was in order. (That's not a slight on 4E or it's fans, just stating current events.)</p><p></p><p>So, no the game doesn't need to survive, it needs to be fun. If it is fun then players will continue to play and hopefully new players will begin playing, and that will determine whether or not it "survives". </p><p></p><p>And you would lose that bet. My son is 15 and loves playing D&D. He enjoys both 4e, PF and AD&D1E. He has even commented on occasion, that AD&D is more fun that 4E or PF. Another member of our group has two kids, one 17, one 13 who also play. They have fun playing 4E, PF, C&C, and AD&D. We have players from our local college who are 10-15 years younger (early to mid 20s) than us and also enjoy playing both new AND old systems. </p><p></p><p>And it has ZERO to due with whether or not the mechanics of any particular game are more modern than the other, and EVERYTHING to do with how much fun we have running our games. When you run and participate in fun games with good DMs, the rules can, most often, be completely overlooked.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pilgrim, post: 5777511, member: 6680799"] If what you say you believe to be true, then I high doubt your credibility where D&D is concerned. 4E was WotCs end-all-be-all for attracting modern gamers to the D&D scene. In case you've missed it, it didn't work out as well as WotC would have liked, which leads me to believe that what you say is majorly flawed in both reasoning and logic. Survive? Since when does D&D have to survive? It's not about survival, it's about fun. If there were enough players having fun playing 4E and enough new players interested in 4E, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation because the popularity of 4E would be such that there was no need for D&D Next. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. The ideologies of 4E did not, for whatever reason, meet the expectation of the designers and have come up short, at least enough that they felt a new iteration was in order. (That's not a slight on 4E or it's fans, just stating current events.) So, no the game doesn't need to survive, it needs to be fun. If it is fun then players will continue to play and hopefully new players will begin playing, and that will determine whether or not it "survives". And you would lose that bet. My son is 15 and loves playing D&D. He enjoys both 4e, PF and AD&D1E. He has even commented on occasion, that AD&D is more fun that 4E or PF. Another member of our group has two kids, one 17, one 13 who also play. They have fun playing 4E, PF, C&C, and AD&D. We have players from our local college who are 10-15 years younger (early to mid 20s) than us and also enjoy playing both new AND old systems. And it has ZERO to due with whether or not the mechanics of any particular game are more modern than the other, and EVERYTHING to do with how much fun we have running our games. When you run and participate in fun games with good DMs, the rules can, most often, be completely overlooked. [/QUOTE]
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Vancian? Why can't we let it go?
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