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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Vancian? Why can't we let it go?
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5779980" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>On the contrary, it tends to be the utility spells that need to be restricted and not the damaging spells. The real danger of the Wizard historically is usually in how much it outshines other classes outside of combat. At times it outshines them in combat as well, but often in 1e this was essentially do to ignoring rules that restricted Wizards, and in 3e it was due to dominating the action economy and not how much damage they could output.</p><p></p><p>I have no problem with a starting Wizard essentially having access to unlimited 'Ray of Frost' spells. As the Warlock proves, unlimited ranged touch attacks can be easily balanced with other classes and represent only situational advantages over sword swinging and arrow firing. If all you want is to not have to depend on throwing darts swinging a staff or other mundane attacks for your wizard, and all you want is to be able to cast Prestidigitation essentially at will, then that is easy and I can imagine any number of mechanics for it from the simple to the complex, from the revolutionary to things that essentially would accomplish that purpose without changing the rules much at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 5779980, member: 4937"] On the contrary, it tends to be the utility spells that need to be restricted and not the damaging spells. The real danger of the Wizard historically is usually in how much it outshines other classes outside of combat. At times it outshines them in combat as well, but often in 1e this was essentially do to ignoring rules that restricted Wizards, and in 3e it was due to dominating the action economy and not how much damage they could output. I have no problem with a starting Wizard essentially having access to unlimited 'Ray of Frost' spells. As the Warlock proves, unlimited ranged touch attacks can be easily balanced with other classes and represent only situational advantages over sword swinging and arrow firing. If all you want is to not have to depend on throwing darts swinging a staff or other mundane attacks for your wizard, and all you want is to be able to cast Prestidigitation essentially at will, then that is easy and I can imagine any number of mechanics for it from the simple to the complex, from the revolutionary to things that essentially would accomplish that purpose without changing the rules much at all. [/QUOTE]
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Vancian? Why can't we let it go?
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