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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Vancian? Why can't we let it go?
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<blockquote data-quote="Jeff Carlsen" data-source="post: 5785000" data-attributes="member: 61749"><p>And then the bard became a class because the default assumption is that a person will pick a single class that will define their character for the entire game. Multiclassing is an advanced option for those who want to break out of the mold.</p><p></p><p>But, our butting heads is derailing this conversation, which is about considering ways to make the Vancian wizard less unattractive to those who don't enjoy previous incarnations. So back to it.</p><p></p><p>* * *</p><p></p><p>It's small pieces of magic that make a wizard feel, well, magical. In most games I play, cantrips don't have to be prepared, and we generally don't track their use, because they help represent the wizards ability to manipulate magic whenever he wants to make his life easier.</p><p></p><p>Spells that simply make the wizard a better fighter don't fit the image. I imagine a set of single target spells that cause stunning, fear, confusion, pain, or other effects that aren't damage; that aren't limited to a single use per day; and that don't stop being effective at higher levels.</p><p></p><p>These spells should take up spell slots so that having an indefinitely useable spell requires sacrificing a more powerful spell. Thus, we keep the Vancian concept of choosing your loadout.</p><p></p><p>The best thing about this approach is that it doesn't require a dramatically new mechanic. These spells could be added directly to any edition without having to alter the Wizard class text at all (excluding the problem with 3rd Edition spell saves).</p><p></p><p>Lastly, because none of them deal damage directly, an enemy that gets within melee range will still require the Wizard to try and defend himself with weapons, keeping the Wizard's primary weakness.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jeff Carlsen, post: 5785000, member: 61749"] And then the bard became a class because the default assumption is that a person will pick a single class that will define their character for the entire game. Multiclassing is an advanced option for those who want to break out of the mold. But, our butting heads is derailing this conversation, which is about considering ways to make the Vancian wizard less unattractive to those who don't enjoy previous incarnations. So back to it. * * * It's small pieces of magic that make a wizard feel, well, magical. In most games I play, cantrips don't have to be prepared, and we generally don't track their use, because they help represent the wizards ability to manipulate magic whenever he wants to make his life easier. Spells that simply make the wizard a better fighter don't fit the image. I imagine a set of single target spells that cause stunning, fear, confusion, pain, or other effects that aren't damage; that aren't limited to a single use per day; and that don't stop being effective at higher levels. These spells should take up spell slots so that having an indefinitely useable spell requires sacrificing a more powerful spell. Thus, we keep the Vancian concept of choosing your loadout. The best thing about this approach is that it doesn't require a dramatically new mechanic. These spells could be added directly to any edition without having to alter the Wizard class text at all (excluding the problem with 3rd Edition spell saves). Lastly, because none of them deal damage directly, an enemy that gets within melee range will still require the Wizard to try and defend himself with weapons, keeping the Wizard's primary weakness. [/QUOTE]
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Vancian? Why can't we let it go?
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