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<blockquote data-quote="Amazing Mumford" data-source="post: 4833689" data-attributes="member: 33976">Question about Variant Class Features-- seems like a lot of material that came out toward the &quot;end&quot; of 3.5 introduced Variant Class Features.&nbsp; These were for the most part pretty cool, i.e. for someone who likes to play a Druid but doesn't want anything to do with an animal companion, you have a couple options.&nbsp;Here's my question/dilemma-- I'll pick on the Ranger for a second-- some Variant Class Features give the Ranger new abilities and take old abilities away.&nbsp; For example, in the Complete Warrior, the Variant takes away the spellcasting ability (for the Ranger this starts at 4th level) and grants Fast Movement at 6th level and Nature's Blessing at 11th level.&nbsp; That's all well and good, and for the character to see any benefit from this option at all they must at least play the Ranger class to 6th level, and would want to play the class until 11th level to gain the whole benefit.&nbsp;Now, here is where it gets dodgy-- In Dragon #347 there is a Variant Feature called Solitary Hunting, taken at 1st level, which gives the Ranger your favored enemy bonus on attack rolls (as well as damage) in exchange for giving up the Animal Companion feature.&nbsp; The bonus of this Variant takes effect at 1st level, but the drawback doesn't come into play until 4th level for the Ranger.&nbsp; So, what do you do for the player who &quot;dips&quot; into this class, takes this Variant ability, and then doesn't take Ranger to the 4th level??&nbsp; In essence I think this creates a &quot;get-something-for-nothing&quot; situation.&nbsp; Even if the player wasn't trying to be cheesy and legitimately wanted to take 2-3 levels of Ranger, they could still get this bonus without giving something up?&nbsp;Another example, this time the Monk-- from Dragon #351, a Variant Monk feature &quot;Bane of the Clockwork&quot;, taken at 3rd level, gives you benefits against Constructs.&nbsp; The feature traded doesn't come in until 4th level, where the Monk then at that time wouldn't get the Slow Fall ability, and would also lose the bonus feat granted at 6th level.&nbsp; This particular feature states that the Variant is taken at 3rd level, but again, what if a player only takes the Monk to 3rd level?&nbsp; Once again, the &quot;something-for-nothing&quot; situation comes into play.&nbsp;So I'm asking, is there a rule anywhere that a feature MUST be given-up in order to be able to choose the Variant feature?&nbsp; or would this be more of a house-rule thing, stating basically that you can't &quot;get something for nothing&quot;, for example in the Ranger example above do you think it's fair to say that &quot;If you want this Variant Ability (Favored Enemy bonus added to hit as well as damage) then you MUST take your Ranger to at least 4th level??&nbsp;What do you guys think?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Amazing Mumford, post: 4833689, member: 33976"] Question about Variant Class Features-- seems like a lot of material that came out toward the "end" of 3.5 introduced Variant Class Features. These were for the most part pretty cool, i.e. for someone who likes to play a Druid but doesn't want anything to do with an animal companion, you have a couple options. Here's my question/dilemma-- I'll pick on the Ranger for a second-- some Variant Class Features give the Ranger new abilities and take old abilities away. For example, in the Complete Warrior, the Variant takes away the spellcasting ability (for the Ranger this starts at 4th level) and grants Fast Movement at 6th level and Nature's Blessing at 11th level. That's all well and good, and for the character to see any benefit from this option at all they must at least play the Ranger class to 6th level, and would want to play the class until 11th level to gain the whole benefit. Now, here is where it gets dodgy-- In Dragon #347 there is a Variant Feature called Solitary Hunting, taken at 1st level, which gives the Ranger your favored enemy bonus on attack rolls (as well as damage) in exchange for giving up the Animal Companion feature. The bonus of this Variant takes effect at 1st level, but the drawback doesn't come into play until 4th level for the Ranger. So, what do you do for the player who "dips" into this class, takes this Variant ability, and then doesn't take Ranger to the 4th level?? In essence I think this creates a "get-something-for-nothing" situation. Even if the player wasn't trying to be cheesy and legitimately wanted to take 2-3 levels of Ranger, they could still get this bonus without giving something up? Another example, this time the Monk-- from Dragon #351, a Variant Monk feature "Bane of the Clockwork", taken at 3rd level, gives you benefits against Constructs. The feature traded doesn't come in until 4th level, where the Monk then at that time wouldn't get the Slow Fall ability, and would also lose the bonus feat granted at 6th level. This particular feature states that the Variant is taken at 3rd level, but again, what if a player only takes the Monk to 3rd level? Once again, the "something-for-nothing" situation comes into play. So I'm asking, is there a rule anywhere that a feature MUST be given-up in order to be able to choose the Variant feature? or would this be more of a house-rule thing, stating basically that you can't "get something for nothing", for example in the Ranger example above do you think it's fair to say that "If you want this Variant Ability (Favored Enemy bonus added to hit as well as damage) then you MUST take your Ranger to at least 4th level?? What do you guys think? [/QUOTE]

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