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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Poltergeist" data-source="post: 127045" data-attributes="member: 2903">Thanks for the input!  I did utilize the shugenga model extensively to come up with the spells per day/spells known progression.  However, I felt some of the balancing factor occured based on the spell list...the priest will have the cleric spell list, plus whatever domain spells are known, to choose from which is more limited than the shugenga list in terms of "damage" type spells.  Additionally, cleric spells tend to have shorter durations and less "direct" impact than shugenga or druid spells.Also, remember that a shugenga can decide to take armor proficiency feats and wear armor if they so choose.  OA states that they wouldn't tend to do this, but this becomes the old saw about balancing a functional advantage with a role playing disadvantage.  If a priest chooses to don armor, he or she loses the protection of faith ability and cannot cast any miracles while the armor is worn which effectively means that wearing armor would cripple the character. With that in mind, protection of faith became a necessary addition for a couple of reasons:  1)  There are no long duration, low level armor class increasing spells on the cleric list (i.e.-Mage armor) which would leave priests sitting ducks.  While they can cast magic vestment starting at fifth level (provided they chose it as a known spell) this spell is designed to stack with armor rather than replace it so the AC bonus is initially much lower than a spell like mage armor 2) many priest spells, especially healing spells, have to be cast up close and personal in the field of battle so they cannot compensate for low armor class by staying "out of the thick of it" like a wizard/sorcerer may choose to do.  Additionally, the use of "protection from arrows" can allow a wizard or sorcerer to cast from a distance, avoiding melee combat, and becoming nigh on immune to ranged attacks.  Priests get no equivalent spell.  I increased the spells known slightly in an attempt to balance against the cleric class.  Keep in mind that though clerics have to prepare spells ahead of time their ability to spontaneously cast healing spells by sacrificing a prepared spell of the same level gives them a spell casting edge over other casters who prepare spells.Another part of the balance game became the fact that the shugenga spell list is (in my eyes, at least) more powerful than the cleric spell list.  Due to this, an increase in spells known was done to address the varying powers of the spell list.  Additionally, I would tend to disagree that the OA classes are balanced against the core classes.  While I love many things about OA, many of the classes seem underpowered to me while many of the monsters listed in the book seem overpowered for their CR level making me question what kind of play testing was done.My primary effort is to balance the priest versus the cleric, to be used either as another core class to allow more casting flavored priests in a campaign that includes clerics, or used as an alternative to clerics in a campaign that does not.  When I stack this class against the cleric class:1)  Priest has no armor or shield proficiency while cleric is proficient in all armor types and shields.2)  Cleric has access to the full cleric spell list while the priest knows a limited number of miracles and can cast spontaneously from this list.3)  While a cleric cannot cast completely spontaneously, he or she can spontaneously cast heal or harm spells (depending upon alignmnt) which increases casting versatility when compared with other "prepared spell casters."4)  Priest can cast a greater number of spells per day than cleric but gains access to higher level spells more slowly.5)  Priests get one more domain than clerics (at higher levels.)  However, domains do not increase spells per day, only miracles known.  Therefore, the number of spells per day a priest can cast above a clerics is actually quite small when you add a clerics domain spells to his or her spells per day.6)  Priests gain a wisdom bonus to AC but cannot wear any armor or use shields.  In a priest with a very high wisdom, this will grant an AC bonus of +4 or so...at higher levels this could conceivably increase to +6.  A cleric can wear heavy armor, granting an AC bonus of +10 (full plate/shield) regardless of stats resulting in general in much better AC.7)  Priest gets poorer BAB and reduced hit dice.8)  Priest cannot turn undead automatically unless it is a domain power.9) Priest gets one bonus feat (combat casting), and virtual meta magic feats that affect domain spells only.All in all, the goal is to create a less combat oriented, more casting oriented priest.  Does it make a bit more sense when I break the "balance equation" down that way?  Again, thanks everyone for the input!</blockquote>

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