Variant Gnome and Dark Elf

[Thamewolf]

Hello everyone.
I was wondering if anyone might contribute their thoughts on these two race variants for a campaign I am working on (which will probably be very long in coming to fruition).

First of all, I am using the Elder Scrolls world (Oblivion and Morrowind) very loosely as a setting for my campaign (mainly just the maps, with same geography but some of the details of specific locations changed).
The traditional drow doesn't fit into my campaign world, so I have attempted to create a dark elf very loosely based on Oblivion's dark elf, meant to be a character option playable from 1st level.

Dark Elf:
As Elf in PHB except as follows:

+2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma
The barbaric Dark Elves have not overcome the frailty of their elven heritage, but adapting to their brutal, mountainous wilderness has made them strong and preserved their agility. Unfortunately, it has also had negative impact on their intellect and culture.

Darkvision up to 60’ (as well as Elven low light vision).
This ability originated during the centuries they were forced to spend in their underground refuge. The persistence of the cloud of volcanic ash shadowing their homeland has preserved this ability even after their return to the surface.

Light Sensitive: -1 to all attack rolls, saves, and checks while operating in direct bright light.

Fire Resistance of 25 + character level.
Long exposure to a volcanic environment has necessitated this adaptation.

Also, another alteration in this campaign is that magic has been dead in the world for over a millennium (little more than ancient folklore to the modern mind). It has only recently returned in the form of spell-like abilities and mutations.
As such, Gnomes as a race cannot have spell-like abilities (though individuals among them might). They have taken on more of a tinkerer/craftsman specialization.

Tinker Gnome:
As Gnome in PHB except as follows:

-2 Strength, +2 Int, +2 Wis.
Gnomes are not strong, but they are crafty and extremely good at many professions.

No bonus weapon familiarity, saving throws, DC, attacks vs. favored enemies, or dodge vs. favored enemies.

No spell-like abilities.

+4 to any one craft or alchemy. +2 to all other craft and/or alchemy skills in which they have at least 1 rank.

4 extra skill points at first level, +1 each additional level.

If y'all have any thoughts, I would greatly appreciate them.
Thanks,
Ryan

 

[Aus_Snow]

Well, I just remembered I have this document, 'True Tamriel', which is a True20 adaptation of TES. It could be handy for you, but I don't think it's downloadable anymore. Not that I can see atm, anyhow.

If you like, I can email it to you (it's a free and legal fan creation, btw.) Just drop me a line at: aus_snow (at) letterboxes (dot) org, so I've got an address to send to.

Or if you don't think it'd be helpful, I won't be offended. I didn't even write the thing.

Just a thought.

 

[Sylrae]

The Drow has too many negatives and the gnome too many positives. (unless youre removing caster classes, then the gnome is fine but the drow becomes even more too many negatives. - the 25 fire resist may balance out the extra -s

The gnome is still netting an extra +2 though

I suppose that's a matter of opinion though, different people weigh different stats differently. In my games the players usually avoid races with extra negatives than positives, unless they have significant special abilities (not that I blame them).

 

[Thamewolf]

I was thinking there might be a problem with the dark elf, but I thought it might be okay because it makes a decent combat race and an especially good barbarian. As for the abilities, I followed the DMG equivalencies exactly for the dark elf (I fudged the gnome a bit by following the equivalencies backwards, since it seemed that in a non-spellcasting game if you could get +2 Str, -2 Int, -2 Wis, then you should be able to do -2 Str, +2 Int, +2 Wis).

Some things I was considering if people thought the dark elf was underpowered:
Extend darkvision back to 120'?
and/or
Remove light sensitivity?
and/or
add weapon proficiencies?
and/or
add skill bonuses (maybe climb and something else)

Thanks for the input.
I'm still open to any further thoughts.

 

[Nellisir]

The drow are iffy - the modification to 5 out of 6 abilities pigeonhole them pretty well, except that the Con penalty works against a martial character. Fire resistance is nice but not really spectacular - you're going to have PCs idly walking through campfires. It's just not very exciting.

 

[Arkhandus]

Given what setting info you've given, it seems that your Gnomes are just a little too strong and your Dark Elves a bit stronger still.

The gnomes lack a human's bonus feat but get numerous skill bonuses instead, plus the Int/Wis which is a bit much for just balancing out the Str penalty and size.

Lower their skill bonuses and probably drop the Wis bonus. Not sure, but that would probably be plenty, just might be a tad too much weakening given that you seem to have removed the spellcasting classes (I assume).

The dark elves are far superior to half-orcs as you have them now. The Dex bonus and Fire Resistance are what put it definitely over the edge; remove something equivalent or add equivalent penalties.

 

[Thamewolf]

Hey, thanks for the input.
As for the gnomes, I can see how the bonus to both Int and Wis might normally be a bit of a stretch (even though DMG says giving -2 to both of those is equivalent to a +2 in strength, so if it doesn't work the other way around they aren't really "equivalent"). However, the fact that those bonuses will never work towards higher save DCs or bonus spells in this campaign weakens them significantly. Their effect is almost exclusively to skills (except the will saves from Wis). While skills are important in this campaign, there will be definite combat periods, so I wanted to make up their failing there on the skill side. Also, I have the removed spell-like abilities and random favored enemy combat bonuses to make up for. What do you think about dropping the tradeskill bonuses to +2 for one and +1 to the others?

Regarding the dark elves, others I've talked with (as well as myself) seem to go back and forth between thinking they are too weak and thinking they're too powerful. In a perfect world, that would mean they're just right, but I have a feeling they need some tweaking yet. Some points:

1) Fire Resistance- some think it is too strong, some think it balances, and some find it unimpressive. In this campaign there aren't going to a lot of mages slinging fire spells left and right. They might only encounter 2-3 NPCs capable of casting fireball as a spell-like ability in the first 10 levels of play, probably less. Oh, and those NPCs will only be able to cast their fireballs once a day (maybe twice if they've harnessed a place or ritual of great power). This would lean toward fire res being weaker. However, there are a fair amount of traps, a few of which might be fire, though most are poison, and alchemically made flaming arrows are not out of the question. Thus, I'm not really sure.

2) Ability bonuses/penalties- again, people can't seem to agree on this. As I've stated previously, they follow DMG equivalencies (a trade of +2 Str for -2 Int and -2 Cha, as well as a trade of +2 Dex for -2 Con as per the standard elf).
As for the "too weak" argument, I can see how the -2 Con would hurt the combat-type roles. However, those abilities would still make for a pretty good finesse oriented fighter, a decent ranger, and an excellent barbarian. These are pretty much the types of dark elf traditions that will exist in the culture of my campaign. Removing the -2 to Con would pretty much separate them from their elvish heritage and make them too powerful beyond a doubt.
As for the "too strong" argument, this is a decent point in that there are no casting classes that make great ability use of the Int and Cha skills. However, these abilities will have a large affect on power accumulation in the RP parts of the campaign, and the dark elves might suffer there depending on how low they let those drop. I agree that the dark elves are more powerful than Half-Orcs. Thank you for pointing that out. It reminds me of another change I've got to make. I have always thought Half-Orcs were unbalanced and far weaker than the other races (possibly even a step behind the Half-Elves). They trade strength bonus for Int and Cha penalties as DMG equivalencies suggest, but in addition to abilities, all races have certain other special bonuses. The Half-Orc's sole bonus is darkvision (I don't consider the bloodline stuff a bonus). Compare this with the dwarf's long list of pretty good bonuses and there's no way you can say it's balanced. But I digress.

I am probably going to keep the ability bonuses/penalties on these races as is, but I am certainly on the lookout for specific suggestions on balancing them with relation to the other racial bonuses. Thanks again for your suggestions and help.