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<blockquote data-quote="Lord Zardoz" data-source="post: 3349935" data-attributes="member: 704">I dont like using Turning as is for reasons that have been mentioned in many places.&nbsp; The current system makes what might have been a good combat encounter into one of 3 things.1)&nbsp; The Undead simply run away2)&nbsp; The Undead are all outright destroyed3)&nbsp; The Cleric botches his Turn checks and we have a TPKThe system presented in Complete Divine makes it easeir to create a challenging encounter with Undead.And consider that the base Undead HD is a d12, and that it appears that Will is the strong save for many Undead.&nbsp; An 8th Level Cleric against an 8HD Undead creature is probably going to have to blast it with at least 2 Turn attempts to fry it outright, perhaps more if the creature can make his saves.&nbsp; And if there are evil Clerics on hand, they can do alot to keep their Undead in the fight.That brings to mind another thought, however.Can an Undead Cleric use its own turning power to heal its self (Or bolster its self if using the original rules)?Getting back to the Turn Resistance effect, I agree that DR based Turn Resistance to the turning attempt is not nearly as useful to this modified Turning rule as Turn Resistance is to the original rules.&nbsp; I may yet tweak that, but for the moment, I an content to let it play out before I decide to do anything to it.END COMMUNICATION</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lord Zardoz, post: 3349935, member: 704"] I dont like using Turning as is for reasons that have been mentioned in many places. The current system makes what might have been a good combat encounter into one of 3 things. 1) The Undead simply run away 2) The Undead are all outright destroyed 3) The Cleric botches his Turn checks and we have a TPK The system presented in Complete Divine makes it easeir to create a challenging encounter with Undead. And consider that the base Undead HD is a d12, and that it appears that Will is the strong save for many Undead. An 8th Level Cleric against an 8HD Undead creature is probably going to have to blast it with at least 2 Turn attempts to fry it outright, perhaps more if the creature can make his saves. And if there are evil Clerics on hand, they can do alot to keep their Undead in the fight. That brings to mind another thought, however. Can an Undead Cleric use its own turning power to heal its self (Or bolster its self if using the original rules)? Getting back to the Turn Resistance effect, I agree that DR based Turn Resistance to the turning attempt is not nearly as useful to this modified Turning rule as Turn Resistance is to the original rules. I may yet tweak that, but for the moment, I an content to let it play out before I decide to do anything to it. END COMMUNICATION [/QUOTE]

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