Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 8670496" data-attributes="member: 6877472">It's not very clear what Subtle Spell does at all, if you want to be honest.&nbsp; I mean, it says you can cast spells without using somatic or verbal components.&nbsp; Which means you can cast spells when your hands are tied or you can't speak.But the ability never actually says it prevents the use of Counterspell!&nbsp; Let's not forget the long strange trip of justifying what someone has to do to identify what spell is being cast in the first place (like needing to use one's reaction to identify it, per Xanathar's, making it impossible to identify a spell you wanted to counter)!And as is always brought up, some spells, like shield, let you counter things that should be impossible- like making a hit into a miss (really, should a character understand what Armor Class is, and intuitively understand exactly how much protection they need to avoid being harmed?) or being able to deflect magic missile sent their way.These are abilities that only really function because of metagame knowledge.&nbsp; If players had no knowledge of attack roll results, you'd see shield used a lot less often, I bet.&nbsp; It's up to the DM to interpret what a character logically knows at any given point.In the case of Vecna, we have a godlike being who has knowledge and secrets as his bag, who has, in the past, abused loopholes and exploited the underpinnings of reality to get what he wants.&nbsp; If a DM says that Vecna's intellect is such that he can counterspell things he shouldn't be aware of, then he can.If, on the contrary, you think that's a bridge too far, then he can't.&nbsp; All we can say is he theoretically has that ability.I'm reminded of an amusing bit from the Amber diceless roleplaying rulebook.&nbsp; A player has decided to ambush one of the greatest known warriors in the multiverse by attacking him while invisible.&nbsp; To his surprise, the attack is parried.&nbsp; When asked how that is possible, the GM glibly replies &quot;he's the kind of person who has practiced parrying invisible swords&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 8670496, member: 6877472"] It's not very clear what Subtle Spell does at all, if you want to be honest. I mean, it says you can cast spells without using somatic or verbal components. Which means you can cast spells when your hands are tied or you can't speak. But the ability never [I]actually[/I] says it prevents the use of Counterspell! Let's not forget the long strange trip of justifying what someone has to do to identify what spell is being cast in the first place (like needing to use one's reaction to identify it, per Xanathar's, making it impossible to identify a spell you wanted to counter)! And as is always brought up, some spells, like [I]shield[/I], let you counter things that should be impossible- like making a hit into a miss (really, should a character understand what Armor Class is, and intuitively understand exactly how much protection they need to avoid being harmed?) or being able to deflect [I]magic missile [/I]sent their way. These are abilities that only really function because of metagame knowledge. If players had no knowledge of attack roll results, you'd see [I]shield[/I] used a lot less often, I bet. It's up to the DM to interpret what a character logically knows at any given point. In the case of Vecna, we have a godlike being who has knowledge and secrets as his bag, who has, in the past, abused loopholes and exploited the underpinnings of reality to get what he wants. If a DM says that Vecna's intellect is such that he can counterspell things he shouldn't be aware of, then he can. If, on the contrary, you think that's a bridge too far, then he can't. All we can say is he theoretically has that ability. I'm reminded of an amusing bit from the Amber diceless roleplaying rulebook. A player has decided to ambush one of the greatest known warriors in the multiverse by attacking him while invisible. To his surprise, the attack is parried. When asked how that is possible, the GM glibly replies "he's the kind of person who has practiced parrying invisible swords". [/QUOTE]

Verification