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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Loincloth of Armour" data-source="post: 6127007" data-attributes="member: 28201">I share a similar unease about how vehicles/mounts get trashed by mid/high (even some low) level players. I have an idea, but I haven't playtested it so how well it will work is open to a lot of testing/debate.Basically, I suggest treating the vehicle not as just a vehicle, but as a creature. Players can attack it, but until they do enough damage to it to affect it as they would a creature of that level, tough luck.The following are 4th Edition examples:A smallish ship is actually an 8th level elite, with related defences and hit points. The crew represents a portion of the vessel's hit points, and when bloodied more and more crew members are hurt/disabled until the ship is broken/sinks. This keeps the players from just fireballing the sails, as a single fireball isn't enough to defeat an 8th level elite, but helps widdle the ship down.On the other hand, once you're high enough level, you *can* take out a single viking longboat by yourself... you're that badass.A large, ocean going warship may be a 16th level elite. The 'crew' doesn't have stats, but are part of the hit points of the vessel itself. Heroes and other 'named' NPCs are not part of the vessel and are treated as separate entities, so you have a choice: you can attack the ship OR you can attack the dramatically important people on the ship. (Area attacks might get both).For a chariot, it (the horses, the framework, the box), is a creature level approriate to the encounter. You can't attack the 2nd level horse that's pulling the chariot, but you can attack the 7th level chariot... or the 9th level warlord who is riding it. I would make the chariot a few levels lower than the rider, so there's a reason why it would be beneficial to attack the ride as opposed to the rider.Then, give the chariot a number of powers it can use that are thematically appropriate (a trample attack, a reaction to allow anyone riding it to increase their defences by +2 because of its better dodging ability, a sudden burst of speed, etc). If the players want to dump the warlord from his tricked-out wheels, it's not a simple case of "I full power attack the horse", but requires them to work at it. And if they succeed, the warlord now has lost those extras powers his sweet ride provided him.It is very gamist, since why is the horse a 2nd level creature, but once hooked up to a chariot it's now a 7th level thing with 50 more hit points and better defences??? But I feel it might be a necessary 'cheat' in order for these things to have the dramatic gravity you seem to be striving for.</blockquote>

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