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Message: <blockquote data-quote="auburn2" data-source="post: 7450453" data-attributes="member: 6855259">Her base role play will be a "Paldinish" fighting character, not a spell caster, so the question is what would work with Paladin, not what would work with wizard.  The reason she wants Paladin is the smite melee damage which will eclipse anything a bard can do and is comparable to a rogue, more dpr, but less uses.  With Paladin 8/wizard 4 she will get slots equivalent to a 16th level Paladin though, so that is a lot of smiting.  Considering this, Bard can't get shield until 6th or 10th level, which is really a bigger deal than bladesong I think.  Ek can get it, but at 4th level (with 8th level Paladin) she is sacrificing 1 3rd level and 2 4th level slots for that compared to bladesinger, plus the extra 2 slots that come with a short rest.  Probably better to go straight Paladin than Paladin/EK.  Sorcerer might be worth considering, and I will mention that.  It would let her max charisma at the expense of 3 AC twice a short rest and 2 smites a day from arcane recovery. Her aura is poor but her important saves are really good to start with, she will be proficient in Wisdom, Charisma and Constitution saves and with the dex + aura she has a +4 dex save, not too shabby (and the hps to deal with missing it).  A straight up Paladin in plate mail will only be slightly better at +5 dex save with Charisma maxed out (albeit with a higher strength and higher saves everywhere else).  Strength and Intelligence saves aren't that common, although the athletics skill will be relatively weak for a melee character.</blockquote>

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