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<blockquote data-quote="takyris" data-source="post: 2264686" data-attributes="member: 5171">Saw this in Yahoo news this morning:So it's not just &quot;Lost&quot; versus &quot;Veronica Mars.&quot; I only saw that because I watch both shows, and both shows have a strong geek following above and beyond their normal following. &quot;E-Ring&quot; and &quot;Criminal Minds&quot; seem to be competing with each other, and they both sound enough like procedurals that they're not really competing with &quot;Lost&quot; and only marginally with &quot;Veronica Mars&quot;, which might be a mystery show but which I wouldn't call a procedural. &quot;Related&quot; sounds like it will hit &quot;Veronica Mars&quot; much more than &quot;Lost&quot;, although possibly not here on the boards, since we are, generally speaking, the geek fans, not the young female fans that apparently are meant to make up most of the &quot;Veronica Mars&quot; audience. (I have no idea whether or not this is true.) &quot;Head Cases&quot; doesn't sound like a big problem for either of the shows I care about.Operating under the theory that UPN was genuinely trying to help &quot;Veronica Mars&quot; by giving it the &quot;America's Next Top Model&quot; lead-in, which turned out to ram Veronica into &quot;Lost&quot;, I can think of a few ways for UPN to help itself:Possible timeslots:Monday at 8: Veronica would compete against: &quot;Fathom&quot;, the new NBC show about alien monsters coming out of the water in California, Antarctica, and the Gulf States; &quot;The King of Queens&quot; followed by &quot;How I Met Your Mother&quot;, two sitcoms; &quot;Wife Swap&quot;, a reality show; &quot;Arrested Development&quot; followed by &quot;Kitchen Confidential&quot;, two sitcoms; and &quot;7th Heaven&quot;. While I'd be bummed to have &quot;Veronica Mars&quot; opposite &quot;Arrested Development&quot;, this seems like a pretty good slot for the show. &quot;7th Heaven&quot; is arguably a competitor, but it's a competitor on the WB, which means it might actually be winnable for UPN. &quot;Fathom&quot; could steal some geeks, but it's a Sci-Fi show on NBC, which has not been a good sign in the past few years. The sitcoms are not likely huge competitors (although I'd be bummed, as I said, about the competition with &quot;Arrested Development&quot;). The only bad part here is that Veronica wouldn't get any lead-in. Veronica would be displacing a pair of sitcoms that could easily handle Wednesday at 9, given that all the other shows in that area are hourlong dramas.Monday at 9: &quot;Las Vegas&quot; on NBC, sitcoms on CBS, football for awhile on ABC, and a drama called &quot;Prison Break&quot; about a convicted man and his brother trying to get the convicted man out of prison on Fox, and an hourlong comedy-drama about a young lawyer called &quot;Just Legal&quot; on the WB. While I don't see &quot;Las Vegas&quot; as a strong competitor, I'd wager that either &quot;Prison Break&quot; or &quot;Just Legal&quot; are gonna be close enough to take away some viewers. I'd keep &quot;Veronica Mars&quot; out of this slot.Monday at 10: Up against CSI and Medium. No.Tuesday at 8: &quot;Biggest Loser&quot; on NBC, procedurals on CBS and Fox, sitcoms on ABC, and Gilmore Girls on WB. I suspect that Gilmore Girls is a competitor, but otherwise, this slot would be decent. Still no lead-in, though. Not that UPN has a ton to lead in with.Tuesday at 9: Sitcoms on NBC, &quot;Amazing Race&quot; reality on CBS, hourlong female-president comedy-drama &quot;Commander in Chief&quot; on ABC, &quot;House&quot; on Fox, and &quot;Supernatural&quot; on the WB. If &quot;Supernatural&quot; pulls a &quot;Tarzan&quot; and &quot;Commander in Chief&quot; is as popular as other Geena Davis television shows, this would be a good soft place for &quot;Veronica Mars&quot; to be. I could see this as a potential midseason move if/when Veronica's numbers fall even lower than last season as a result of &quot;Lost&quot; stealing the geeks.Tuesday at 10: &quot;Law &amp; Order: SVU&quot;, &quot;Boston Legal&quot;, and a CBS criminal lawyer show. This looks ugly, but if Veronica moved here, she'd be the only non-lawyer-oriented show on television at that time, which could be nice.Wednesday at 8: She can't go here, because &quot;America's Next Top Model&quot; is here, and that's her lead-in, which is the whole reason she's at 9. Ironically, all &quot;America's Next Top Model&quot; faces are &quot;The Apprentice:Martha Stewart Edition&quot;, some sitcoms, and WB's &quot;One Tree Hill.&quot; If &quot;The Apprentice&quot; pulls more viewers away from &quot;America's Next Top Model&quot; than &quot;One Tree Hill&quot; would pull from &quot;Veronica Mars&quot;, swapping the slots might actually be a good idea. It will never happen, though.Wednesday at 9: Lots o' dramas. Bad place for a quirky drama on a low-rated network to be.Wednesday at 10: Two procedurals (&quot;Law &amp; Order&quot; and &quot;CSI: New York&quot;) and new SF series &quot;Invasion&quot;. Probably not worth moving to.Thursday at 8: Veronica has no chance against &quot;Alias.&quot; It's just not going to happen, no matter how pregnant Jennifer Garner gets. Heck, even &quot;The OC&quot; would steal a lot of the &quot;Veronica Mars&quot; female audience, and the genre fans could also go for &quot;Smallville&quot; instead. (I imagine that somewhere, other geeks are unhappy about &quot;Alias&quot; competing with &quot;Smallville.&quot;)Thursday at 9: &quot;CSI&quot;, &quot;The Apprentice&quot;, a new Fox show called &quot;Reunion&quot;, ABC's recreation of &quot;The Night Stalker&quot;, and WB's &quot;Everwood.&quot; Hard to say, here. It depends on how Kolchak fares, and I don't know enough about &quot;Everwood&quot; to know if it's a real competitor.Thursday at 10: &quot;ER&quot;, &quot;Without a Trace&quot;, and &quot;Primetime Live&quot;. This is actually a good slot for Veronica, especially if UPN's &quot;Cuts&quot; and &quot;Love, Inc&quot; build a decent audience.Friday at 8: &quot;Three Wishes&quot;, a reality show from NBC, &quot;Ghost Whisperer&quot;, a medium-esque show on CBS, &quot;Supernanny&quot; on ABC, sitcoms on Fox and WB. Assuming that &quot;Ghost Whisperer&quot; doesn't turn out to be brilliant, this is a potential good slot for Veronica -- hey, it's Friday night, the timeslot of death. Any ratings she got would be good ratings --and if the Nielsen people got things figured out with Tivo, the strong geek audience for &quot;Veronica Mars&quot; would help here, since geeks are slightly more likely to have Tivo recorders and tape stuff to watch later.Friday at 9: &quot;Dateline&quot; on NBC, &quot;Threshold&quot;, a sci-fi alien invasion show on CBS, sitcoms on ABC and WB, &quot;The Gate&quot;, a procedural on Fox. &quot;Threshold&quot; could steal viewers, and this is still the timeslot of death, generally speaking. Putting the show here is essentially admitting defeat, unless Tivo numbers make it suddenly look better and advertisers stop caring that people with Tivo fast-forward through commercials (except the Southwest commercials during football season -- those are awesome).Friday at 10: Just cancel it now and save time.Saturday: Just cancel it now and save time.Sunday at 8: You'd be going against &quot;The Simpsons&quot;, &quot;West Wing&quot;, &quot;Cold Case&quot;, &quot;Extreme Makeover&quot;, and &quot;Charmed&quot;. Between them, these shows have the potential to bleed away every viewer &quot;Veronica Mars&quot; has -- the geeks, the dialogue/writing lovers, the mystery lovers, the young-woman angst-lovers, and anyone who watches &quot;Extreme Makeover&quot;. This would be a bad slot.Sunday at 9: &quot;Law &amp; Order: Criminal Intent&quot;, a movie on CBS, &quot;Desperate Housewives&quot;, &quot;Family Guy&quot;, and &quot;Blue Collar TV.&quot; Not as deadly as the 8 PM slot, but still a lot of competition in the geek arena. I don't know if &quot;Desperate Housewives&quot; has a strong following among young female viewers, but that could be competition, too.Sunday at 10: &quot;Crossing Jordan&quot; and &quot;Grey's Anatomy.&quot; Not a great place -- two hourlong dramas with strong female casts.Anyway, that's what I think offhand, but that's all based on my knowledge of the other shows (often minimal) and my acceptance of the &quot;Veronica Mars&quot; audience as comprising mainly young women and geeks, based on other articles.EDIT: Mark: Fair enough. I made the original comment after reading an old article about how UPN's sitcom numbers, while not great, did surprisingly well against very highly rated shows on other networks -- the articles concluded that because the sitcoms were primarily African-American-cast vehicles, they were keeping the African-American viewers who weren't getting much out of the (highly rated overall) shows on other networks. It was part of an article from a couple of years ago about how UPN was rebuilding its image by figuring out its audience (and noting that its audience-target was fragmented, consisting of young males with WWE and Star Trek and African-American viewers of all ages with its sitcom lineup, which was regularly beating the big three networks in terms of pulling in minority viewers). I also made the comment because those are the shows I see while fast-forwarding through the commercials -- although without the context of me knowing what I know, I can see saying &quot;Oh, just send in some (insert ethnic group here) sitcom to face &quot;Lost&quot; instead&quot; as an offensive-sounding comment. I really didn't intend it that way, but I can understand your read of it, based on how it came out.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="takyris, post: 2264686, member: 5171"] Saw this in Yahoo news this morning: So it's not just "Lost" versus "Veronica Mars." I only saw that because I watch both shows, and both shows have a strong geek following above and beyond their normal following. "E-Ring" and "Criminal Minds" seem to be competing with each other, and they both sound enough like procedurals that they're not really competing with "Lost" and only marginally with "Veronica Mars", which might be a mystery show but which I wouldn't call a procedural. "Related" sounds like it will hit "Veronica Mars" much more than "Lost", although possibly not here on the boards, since we are, generally speaking, the geek fans, not the young female fans that apparently are meant to make up most of the "Veronica Mars" audience. (I have no idea whether or not this is true.) "Head Cases" doesn't sound like a big problem for either of the shows I care about. Operating under the theory that UPN was genuinely trying to help "Veronica Mars" by giving it the "America's Next Top Model" lead-in, which turned out to ram Veronica into "Lost", I can think of a few ways for UPN to help itself: Possible timeslots: Monday at 8: Veronica would compete against: "Fathom", the new NBC show about alien monsters coming out of the water in California, Antarctica, and the Gulf States; "The King of Queens" followed by "How I Met Your Mother", two sitcoms; "Wife Swap", a reality show; "Arrested Development" followed by "Kitchen Confidential", two sitcoms; and "7th Heaven". While I'd be bummed to have "Veronica Mars" opposite "Arrested Development", this seems like a pretty good slot for the show. "7th Heaven" is arguably a competitor, but it's a competitor on the WB, which means it might actually be winnable for UPN. "Fathom" could steal some geeks, but it's a Sci-Fi show on NBC, which has not been a good sign in the past few years. The sitcoms are not likely huge competitors (although I'd be bummed, as I said, about the competition with "Arrested Development"). The only bad part here is that Veronica wouldn't get any lead-in. Veronica would be displacing a pair of sitcoms that could easily handle Wednesday at 9, given that all the other shows in that area are hourlong dramas. Monday at 9: "Las Vegas" on NBC, sitcoms on CBS, football for awhile on ABC, and a drama called "Prison Break" about a convicted man and his brother trying to get the convicted man out of prison on Fox, and an hourlong comedy-drama about a young lawyer called "Just Legal" on the WB. While I don't see "Las Vegas" as a strong competitor, I'd wager that either "Prison Break" or "Just Legal" are gonna be close enough to take away some viewers. I'd keep "Veronica Mars" out of this slot. Monday at 10: Up against CSI and Medium. No. Tuesday at 8: "Biggest Loser" on NBC, procedurals on CBS and Fox, sitcoms on ABC, and Gilmore Girls on WB. I suspect that Gilmore Girls is a competitor, but otherwise, this slot would be decent. Still no lead-in, though. Not that UPN has a ton to lead in with. Tuesday at 9: Sitcoms on NBC, "Amazing Race" reality on CBS, hourlong female-president comedy-drama "Commander in Chief" on ABC, "House" on Fox, and "Supernatural" on the WB. If "Supernatural" pulls a "Tarzan" and "Commander in Chief" is as popular as other Geena Davis television shows, this would be a good soft place for "Veronica Mars" to be. I could see this as a potential midseason move if/when Veronica's numbers fall even lower than last season as a result of "Lost" stealing the geeks. Tuesday at 10: "Law & Order: SVU", "Boston Legal", and a CBS criminal lawyer show. This looks ugly, but if Veronica moved here, she'd be the only non-lawyer-oriented show on television at that time, which could be nice. Wednesday at 8: She can't go here, because "America's Next Top Model" is here, and that's her lead-in, which is the whole reason she's at 9. Ironically, all "America's Next Top Model" faces are "The Apprentice:Martha Stewart Edition", some sitcoms, and WB's "One Tree Hill." If "The Apprentice" pulls more viewers away from "America's Next Top Model" than "One Tree Hill" would pull from "Veronica Mars", swapping the slots might actually be a good idea. It will never happen, though. Wednesday at 9: Lots o' dramas. Bad place for a quirky drama on a low-rated network to be. Wednesday at 10: Two procedurals ("Law & Order" and "CSI: New York") and new SF series "Invasion". Probably not worth moving to. Thursday at 8: Veronica has no chance against "Alias." It's just not going to happen, no matter how pregnant Jennifer Garner gets. Heck, even "The OC" would steal a lot of the "Veronica Mars" female audience, and the genre fans could also go for "Smallville" instead. (I imagine that somewhere, other geeks are unhappy about "Alias" competing with "Smallville.") Thursday at 9: "CSI", "The Apprentice", a new Fox show called "Reunion", ABC's recreation of "The Night Stalker", and WB's "Everwood." Hard to say, here. It depends on how Kolchak fares, and I don't know enough about "Everwood" to know if it's a real competitor. Thursday at 10: "ER", "Without a Trace", and "Primetime Live". This is actually a good slot for Veronica, especially if UPN's "Cuts" and "Love, Inc" build a decent audience. Friday at 8: "Three Wishes", a reality show from NBC, "Ghost Whisperer", a medium-esque show on CBS, "Supernanny" on ABC, sitcoms on Fox and WB. Assuming that "Ghost Whisperer" doesn't turn out to be brilliant, this is a potential good slot for Veronica -- hey, it's Friday night, the timeslot of death. Any ratings she got would be good ratings --and if the Nielsen people got things figured out with Tivo, the strong geek audience for "Veronica Mars" would help here, since geeks are slightly more likely to have Tivo recorders and tape stuff to watch later. Friday at 9: "Dateline" on NBC, "Threshold", a sci-fi alien invasion show on CBS, sitcoms on ABC and WB, "The Gate", a procedural on Fox. "Threshold" could steal viewers, and this is still the timeslot of death, generally speaking. Putting the show here is essentially admitting defeat, unless Tivo numbers make it suddenly look better and advertisers stop caring that people with Tivo fast-forward through commercials (except the Southwest commercials during football season -- those are awesome). Friday at 10: Just cancel it now and save time. Saturday: Just cancel it now and save time. Sunday at 8: You'd be going against "The Simpsons", "West Wing", "Cold Case", "Extreme Makeover", and "Charmed". Between them, these shows have the potential to bleed away every viewer "Veronica Mars" has -- the geeks, the dialogue/writing lovers, the mystery lovers, the young-woman angst-lovers, and anyone who watches "Extreme Makeover". This would be a bad slot. Sunday at 9: "Law & Order: Criminal Intent", a movie on CBS, "Desperate Housewives", "Family Guy", and "Blue Collar TV." Not as deadly as the 8 PM slot, but still a lot of competition in the geek arena. I don't know if "Desperate Housewives" has a strong following among young female viewers, but that could be competition, too. Sunday at 10: "Crossing Jordan" and "Grey's Anatomy." Not a great place -- two hourlong dramas with strong female casts. Anyway, that's what I think offhand, but that's all based on my knowledge of the other shows (often minimal) and my acceptance of the "Veronica Mars" audience as comprising mainly young women and geeks, based on other articles. EDIT: Mark: Fair enough. I made the original comment after reading an old article about how UPN's sitcom numbers, while not great, did surprisingly well against very highly rated shows on other networks -- the articles concluded that because the sitcoms were primarily African-American-cast vehicles, they were keeping the African-American viewers who weren't getting much out of the (highly rated overall) shows on other networks. It was part of an article from a couple of years ago about how UPN was rebuilding its image by figuring out its audience (and noting that its audience-target was fragmented, consisting of young males with WWE and Star Trek and African-American viewers of all ages with its sitcom lineup, which was regularly beating the big three networks in terms of pulling in minority viewers). I also made the comment because those are the shows I see while fast-forwarding through the commercials -- although without the context of me knowing what I know, I can see saying "Oh, just send in some (insert ethnic group here) sitcom to face "Lost" instead" as an offensive-sounding comment. I really didn't intend it that way, but I can understand your read of it, based on how it came out. [/QUOTE]

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