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<blockquote data-quote="mkill" data-source="post: 5803963" data-attributes="member: 55985">I'm firmly on the &quot;Combat as Sport&quot; (CAS) side, with a penchant for flashy heroics. So yes, I like 4E (and the Feng Shui RPG). But now that I think about it, I've met a few &quot;Combat as War&quot; (CAW) players too. It definitely does explain a certain group of players who never warmed up to 4E.I'm not quite sure how to appeal to both sides in one game. Both are deeply gamist, but they don't agree on what the game is. For CAS, the game starts when you roll initiative. Each combat is self-contained, similar to a sports league. They get irritated if they have to bother with boring stuff like counting arrows. They get irritated if the Wizard scys the next enemy group and has the right spell prepared to end the combat in his first action.For CAW, an entire module is a game. They get irritated if they don't get the chance to prepare fights. They hate if the resource management is handwaved. They consider it a good fight if they walk over the enemies in one big swoop.How do you ever accomodate both? This isn't something that you can integrate by giving players spotlight who enjoy a certain game element. This is about how the DM sets up the entire game.The only solution I see is that the DM has to prioritize either CAW or CAS. Ideally, the group tends in one direction as a whole, and the game gives the DM the tools to tailor the campaign in one direction.The difficulty starts if both sides clash at one table. You can mix and match a bit, allowing the group to trounce some encounters by careful planning, and improvising as much as possible to accomodate clever ideas to achieve a tactical advantage. On the other hand, you make sure that there are enough set-piece battles to make the CAS faction happy. It does require both sides to learn to enjoy both elements, though. It doesn't work if one side sulks and complains that &quot;this is not D&amp;D&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="mkill, post: 5803963, member: 55985"] I'm firmly on the "Combat as Sport" (CAS) side, with a penchant for flashy heroics. So yes, I like 4E (and the Feng Shui RPG). But now that I think about it, I've met a few "Combat as War" (CAW) players too. It definitely does explain a certain group of players who never warmed up to 4E. I'm not quite sure how to appeal to both sides in one game. Both are deeply gamist, but they don't agree on what the game is. For CAS, the game starts when you roll initiative. Each combat is self-contained, similar to a sports league. They get irritated if they have to bother with boring stuff like counting arrows. They get irritated if the Wizard scys the next enemy group and has the right spell prepared to end the combat in his first action. For CAW, an entire module is a game. They get irritated if they don't get the chance to prepare fights. They hate if the resource management is handwaved. They consider it a good fight if they walk over the enemies in one big swoop. How do you ever accomodate both? This isn't something that you can integrate by giving players spotlight who enjoy a certain game element. This is about how the DM sets up the entire game. The only solution I see is that the DM has to prioritize either CAW or CAS. Ideally, the group tends in one direction as a whole, and the game gives the DM the tools to tailor the campaign in one direction. The difficulty starts if both sides clash at one table. You can mix and match a bit, allowing the group to trounce some encounters by careful planning, and improvising as much as possible to accomodate clever ideas to achieve a tactical advantage. On the other hand, you make sure that there are enough set-piece battles to make the CAS faction happy. It does require both sides to learn to enjoy both elements, though. It doesn't work if one side sulks and complains that "this is not D&D". [/QUOTE]

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