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<blockquote data-quote="haakon1" data-source="post: 5804022" data-attributes="member: 25619">I definitely prefer &quot;Combat as War&quot;.&nbsp; Though our plans are typically much less complicated than the owl bear plan, we like to plan, we care a lot about logistics, and we like a good, quick, bloody rout of the enemy -- or a knockdown, drag out fight where lives are really on the line, if that's the only choice.&nbsp; That's what AD&amp;D and 3e/3.5e deliver for us, so it's what we played AD&amp;D and straight into 3e, with no plans for 4e.In 4e (which I'm willing to do as a player, but most of my close friends won't try), the lack of logistics/spell planning, and the lack of randomness/suspense in combat (no PC ever dies) make it boring for me.&nbsp; I can see how no logistics is &quot;Combat as Sport&quot;, with emphasis on balance, but a sport where you can't ever lose doesn't seem like much of a sport to me.Note that in the past, the only other games I've DM'd long campaigns in were RECON (roleplaying of Long Range Recon Patrols in Vietnam), Boot Hill (high lethality Western), Top Secret/SI (our campaign was Mission Impossible-type high body count &quot;black ops&quot;), and yeah, it's pretty clear I'm into &quot;RPG as War&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="haakon1, post: 5804022, member: 25619"] I definitely prefer "Combat as War". Though our plans are typically much less complicated than the owl bear plan, we like to plan, we care a lot about logistics, and we like a good, quick, bloody rout of the enemy -- or a knockdown, drag out fight where lives are really on the line, if that's the only choice. That's what AD&D and 3e/3.5e deliver for us, so it's what we played AD&D and straight into 3e, with no plans for 4e. In 4e (which I'm willing to do as a player, but most of my close friends won't try), the lack of logistics/spell planning, and the lack of randomness/suspense in combat (no PC ever dies) make it boring for me. I can see how no logistics is "Combat as Sport", with emphasis on balance, but a sport where you can't ever lose doesn't seem like much of a sport to me. Note that in the past, the only other games I've DM'd long campaigns in were RECON (roleplaying of Long Range Recon Patrols in Vietnam), Boot Hill (high lethality Western), Top Secret/SI (our campaign was Mission Impossible-type high body count "black ops"), and yeah, it's pretty clear I'm into "RPG as War". [/QUOTE]

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