Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
[Very Long Indeed] Reconciling Combat as War and Combat as Sports in 5ed
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 5817776" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Not talking about 'winning' encounters.</p><p></p><p>Nod.</p><p></p><p></p><p>A 4e character has 1-4 encounter attack powers depending on level, and a comparable number of dailies. That is a greater /proportion/ of power in encounters. A 3.x caster had anything from 3 to, what 40? 60? spells, all of which could, with careful selection, be comparable to 4e dailies, if not more potent. So, yes, greater proportion, but of a whole lot less game-breaking mad power, too.</p><p></p><p>3.x casters could cut lose with up to 3 offensive spells a round, too. </p><p></p><p>The peak power of 3.x casters was simply boggling, and the utility spells they possessed quickly made re-charging that power easy. Cheap low-level items made healing between encounters trivial, and there was no limitting mechanic like healing surges.</p><p></p><p>The introduction of healing surges /increased/ the effect of past encounters on current ones. The reduction in number of dailies also did - to a greater degree than the addition of a couple of at-wills and a few encounters would make up for.</p><p></p><p>So, no, 4e is not attrition-free or low-attrition, it's just lower-caster-power.</p><p></p><p>There weren't a lot of such options in 1e (summoning was pretty whimpy, buffs were prettymuch Strength and Haste, and weapon attacks for a 1e wizard were pretty trivial). SR in 3.5 was hardly a speedbump, though. </p><p></p><p>Though, actually, I think we're in accord on this one. 4e took things too far in the 'everything always works' direction. There should be more 'that doesn't work so well' than 4e grants. There shouldn't be any 'oh, everything worthwhile you can do is hosed,' though, which prior eds sometimes abounded with. So, yeah, between 4e and 3e. So "silver or magic to hit" and "immune to SA," no. "Resist X/silver" or "doesn't grant CA when flanked," sure, occassionally.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 5817776, member: 996"] Not talking about 'winning' encounters. Nod. A 4e character has 1-4 encounter attack powers depending on level, and a comparable number of dailies. That is a greater /proportion/ of power in encounters. A 3.x caster had anything from 3 to, what 40? 60? spells, all of which could, with careful selection, be comparable to 4e dailies, if not more potent. So, yes, greater proportion, but of a whole lot less game-breaking mad power, too. 3.x casters could cut lose with up to 3 offensive spells a round, too. The peak power of 3.x casters was simply boggling, and the utility spells they possessed quickly made re-charging that power easy. Cheap low-level items made healing between encounters trivial, and there was no limitting mechanic like healing surges. The introduction of healing surges /increased/ the effect of past encounters on current ones. The reduction in number of dailies also did - to a greater degree than the addition of a couple of at-wills and a few encounters would make up for. So, no, 4e is not attrition-free or low-attrition, it's just lower-caster-power. There weren't a lot of such options in 1e (summoning was pretty whimpy, buffs were prettymuch Strength and Haste, and weapon attacks for a 1e wizard were pretty trivial). SR in 3.5 was hardly a speedbump, though. Though, actually, I think we're in accord on this one. 4e took things too far in the 'everything always works' direction. There should be more 'that doesn't work so well' than 4e grants. There shouldn't be any 'oh, everything worthwhile you can do is hosed,' though, which prior eds sometimes abounded with. So, yeah, between 4e and 3e. So "silver or magic to hit" and "immune to SA," no. "Resist X/silver" or "doesn't grant CA when flanked," sure, occassionally. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
[Very Long Indeed] Reconciling Combat as War and Combat as Sports in 5ed
Top