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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Victories and No Defeats in D&D
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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 5841922" data-attributes="member: 1465"><p>I think this sentence highlights a problem with the players (and DM's) perspective rather than with the game itself.</p><p></p><p>Why is killing the monsters but losing 1-2 PCs is a win?</p><p>On the other hand...</p><p>Why is fleeing the battle a loss?</p><p></p><p>The answer depends on how the DM has decided what the encounter means in the story: if the purpose is exactly to kill the BBEG, you "win" if you kill it no matter how many PC die, and you "lose" if you don't kill it.</p><p></p><p>But there are alternatives. Not every encounter is a BBEG. Not every encounter is a "blocker" for the story (in fact, if you think about it, MOST encounters don't really block anything if you fail to kill them all).</p><p></p><p>Fleeing the battle is a "win" if the purpose is staying alive. If you think this is lame, then ask yourself if Indiana Jones movies have all been lame, because in those movies Indy very rarely actually "wins" a fight by killing or incapacitating someone, he almost always flees from confrontation or he's helped by circumstances and luck (how many times the evil guys in Indy's movies fall into their own traps, are caught up into a hazard or just practically kill themselves by doing something silly?).</p><p></p><p>In our games we had characters death, and we have been captured many times. But I think we have been fleeing too rarely <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /> I would actually like to see that happen more often!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 5841922, member: 1465"] I think this sentence highlights a problem with the players (and DM's) perspective rather than with the game itself. Why is killing the monsters but losing 1-2 PCs is a win? On the other hand... Why is fleeing the battle a loss? The answer depends on how the DM has decided what the encounter means in the story: if the purpose is exactly to kill the BBEG, you "win" if you kill it no matter how many PC die, and you "lose" if you don't kill it. But there are alternatives. Not every encounter is a BBEG. Not every encounter is a "blocker" for the story (in fact, if you think about it, MOST encounters don't really block anything if you fail to kill them all). Fleeing the battle is a "win" if the purpose is staying alive. If you think this is lame, then ask yourself if Indiana Jones movies have all been lame, because in those movies Indy very rarely actually "wins" a fight by killing or incapacitating someone, he almost always flees from confrontation or he's helped by circumstances and luck (how many times the evil guys in Indy's movies fall into their own traps, are caught up into a hazard or just practically kill themselves by doing something silly?). In our games we had characters death, and we have been captured many times. But I think we have been fleeing too rarely :p I would actually like to see that happen more often! [/QUOTE]
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