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<blockquote data-quote="resistor" data-source="post: 4595571" data-attributes="member: 9142">TwinBahamut,I was going to respond inline, but this was easier.I disagree with both your claims.&nbsp; While certainly roles were not &quot;designed-in&quot; in early MMOs like Everquest, they became part of the design of later ones.&nbsp; WoW designers, for instance, discuss them pretty openly when talking about the design of the game.&nbsp; A similar point applies to aggro.&nbsp; In EQ it may have just been an AI limitation, but later games (including both WoW and Guild Wars) have added mechanics very similar to marking that explicitly interact with the aggro system.&nbsp; Taunt-type mechanics have been popular for a while.I think you miss the important point that, while both concepts flow from somewhat naturally from what came before, it was in the context of MMOs that they were a) popularized and b) became intentional game design elements.&nbsp; Thus, even if they're not strictly completely new in some sense, they (or at least their use as intentional design elements) are associated with MMOs in people's minds.&nbsp; And that's what matters.You are, of course, correct that I'm only discussing MMOs.&nbsp; But then, 99% of the &quot;4e is videogame-y!!&quot; threads I've seen boil down to comparing it to MMOs.&nbsp; I don't think I've ever seen an (explained) comparison of it to console RPGs, or even single player computer RPGs.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="resistor, post: 4595571, member: 9142"] TwinBahamut, I was going to respond inline, but this was easier. I disagree with both your claims. While certainly roles were not "designed-in" in early MMOs like Everquest, they [I]became[/I] part of the design of later ones. WoW designers, for instance, discuss them pretty openly when talking about the design of the game. A similar point applies to aggro. In EQ it may have just been an AI limitation, but later games (including both WoW and Guild Wars) have added mechanics very similar to marking that explicitly interact with the aggro system. Taunt-type mechanics have been popular for a while. I think you miss the important point that, while both concepts flow from somewhat naturally from what came before, it [I]was[/I] in the context of MMOs that they were a) popularized and b) became intentional game design elements. Thus, even if they're not strictly completely new in some sense, they (or at least their use as intentional design elements) are associated with MMOs in people's minds. And that's what matters. You are, of course, correct that I'm only discussing MMOs. But then, 99% of the "4e is videogame-y!!" threads I've seen boil down to comparing it to MMOs. I don't think I've ever seen an (explained) comparison of it to console RPGs, or even single player computer RPGs. [/QUOTE]

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