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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Thasmodious" data-source="post: 4595602" data-attributes="member: 63272">No, that's really not what matters.  With that point, you could make the same claim about 4e D&D having HPs or levels.  Because millions play MMOs there are legions of people who associate mechanical concepts of RPGs with MMOs.  That doesn't make it accurate.  And it's not accurate to say that MMOs created roles.  We were using 'tank' and 'nuker' in the 70s and 80s.  We were doing damage-per-round analysis when discussing tactics.  Healing has always been associated with the clergy.  The 1e PHB talks about the four roles (of 1e's time) and their importance, and discusses how the game is balanced and adventures written around the idea that the four roles will be filled.  Your notion that designing with roles in mind is a concept borrowed from MMOs is simply incorrect.It's distorted history and something we see far too often today.  Casual-ish tabletop players get into an MMO, heavily, and learn a great deal about the inner workings out of necessity, because the game is significantly simpler than a tabletop RPG.  Encounters are often designed to be beaten certain ways by certain class combinations because those are the limits of the medium.  The design shows through in a much more apparent manner.  Then, when these newly educated players see a new edition they recognize many elements of design they never payed attention to before and feel that those design elements came from MMOs, disregarding that MMOs took most of those design elements from tabletop gaming and stripped them down for the more limited medium they are working in.  Claiming that 4e "ripped" roles from MMOs or copies the concept of aggro is playing pretty fast and loose with your timelines.  These concepts came from D&D in the first place.  Bahamut shows why claiming aggro is a part of 4e is inaccurate to say the least, but the concept behind aggro - that the "tanks" role is to absorb hits - is something that dates back to OD&D.  The concept may be better understood by the average player in the context of the popular MMO, but history doesn't change based on popular perceptions.</blockquote>

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