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Vincent Baker on mechanics, system and fiction in RPGs
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<blockquote data-quote="Emberashh" data-source="post: 9197261" data-attributes="member: 7040941"><p>I missed this post, but Id like to respond to this bit in particular. </p><p></p><p>Firstly, this is imo Baker (or you? Both? Not certain if this your opinion or his) conflating RPGs with Storygames. Storygames are a subgenre of RPGs, but they're not the same thing.</p><p></p><p>Assuming you're paraphrasing Baker, then contextually, this is fine as Baker is basically outlining the hybrid rpg/storygame systems he'd go on to write. But its important to make the distinction if we're going to speak in broad strokes about whats good for one game type over another.</p><p></p><p>RPG's do not strictly need to be concerned about the "fiction" and it isn't a hallmark of well designed ones (whatever that means) that they do so. This is ultimately why so many games can technically be played as RPG's despite doing nothing to provide actual RPG mechanics, and why many inadvertently make RPGs of themselves for that matter.</p><p></p><p>What's typically really core to RPG's is playstyle reinforcement. For example, you play a particular way and the game responds positively to reinforce playing in that way, while negatively reinforcing other ways of playing for the player's specific experience. Ie, you play as a warrior, trying to play a mage becomes a farce unless there is a hybridization mechanic in place to support a new, hybridized playstyle that ideally doesn't explore the full capabilities of either, but blends the core of both in a satisfying way.</p><p></p><p>That's why it can be so easy for (and why so many have gone this way) FPS video games to end up incorporating more explicit RPG elements, as just the preference for a specific gun over another mirrors the kind of playstyle reinforcement that's core to RPGs. So adding more explicit elements like experience->ability economies becomes a very easy next step to provide a more comprehensive experience. It tends to be done rather lazily though, and afaik I'm not sure that any FPS' ever really hit a design that really took the best advantage of doing this.</p><p></p><p>Secondly, mechanics are what creates gameplay as the confluence of rules, procedures and data being interacted with by a player. Mechanics aren't just one method, but the totality of how a game achieves anything it does. I would wager what you're trying to say is that one of the three things that makes up mechanics are one method.</p><p></p><p>Incidentally, this is whats at the heart of my synchronicity idea in terms of getting mechanics to not feel as though they conflict with the aesthetics of the game, just abstracted much further so as to be applicable to all games rather than just immersion-forward RPGs.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Emberashh, post: 9197261, member: 7040941"] I missed this post, but Id like to respond to this bit in particular. Firstly, this is imo Baker (or you? Both? Not certain if this your opinion or his) conflating RPGs with Storygames. Storygames are a subgenre of RPGs, but they're not the same thing. Assuming you're paraphrasing Baker, then contextually, this is fine as Baker is basically outlining the hybrid rpg/storygame systems he'd go on to write. But its important to make the distinction if we're going to speak in broad strokes about whats good for one game type over another. RPG's do not strictly need to be concerned about the "fiction" and it isn't a hallmark of well designed ones (whatever that means) that they do so. This is ultimately why so many games can technically be played as RPG's despite doing nothing to provide actual RPG mechanics, and why many inadvertently make RPGs of themselves for that matter. What's typically really core to RPG's is playstyle reinforcement. For example, you play a particular way and the game responds positively to reinforce playing in that way, while negatively reinforcing other ways of playing for the player's specific experience. Ie, you play as a warrior, trying to play a mage becomes a farce unless there is a hybridization mechanic in place to support a new, hybridized playstyle that ideally doesn't explore the full capabilities of either, but blends the core of both in a satisfying way. That's why it can be so easy for (and why so many have gone this way) FPS video games to end up incorporating more explicit RPG elements, as just the preference for a specific gun over another mirrors the kind of playstyle reinforcement that's core to RPGs. So adding more explicit elements like experience->ability economies becomes a very easy next step to provide a more comprehensive experience. It tends to be done rather lazily though, and afaik I'm not sure that any FPS' ever really hit a design that really took the best advantage of doing this. Secondly, mechanics are what creates gameplay as the confluence of rules, procedures and data being interacted with by a player. Mechanics aren't just one method, but the totality of how a game achieves anything it does. I would wager what you're trying to say is that one of the three things that makes up mechanics are one method. Incidentally, this is whats at the heart of my synchronicity idea in terms of getting mechanics to not feel as though they conflict with the aesthetics of the game, just abstracted much further so as to be applicable to all games rather than just immersion-forward RPGs. [/QUOTE]
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