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Vindictive, fair DMing, or is 3.5 too Lethal ??
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<blockquote data-quote="reanjr" data-source="post: 1943023" data-attributes="member: 20740"><p>From the sounds of it, the party is on the powerful side for their level (or min maxed). Four CR 11 creatures, while a tough encounter, I would not construe as unfair (unless this is after several other challenging encounters). A 16th level wizard may have been a bit off unless your party is more than four characters.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, that's just smart use of a spell. Maybe you shouldn't have seperated yourself from your party.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's kind of hard to justify complaining that something was too powerful just because you've never encountered anything that powerful before. Maybe you should do less hacking and more planning or recon. Rarely is charging the door without an idea of what's behind a good idea. Not to mention as a LG character, why were you on a murderous rampage? I think the NPC was VERY gracious to not kill the rest of the party after your faux pas.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If the NPC has an Intelligence of 18+? Of course. It's common sense. Maybe something the party could do with some more of.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not sure of the context, but I don't normally have a plan as DM, so this just isn't my style. Doesn't make it the wrong thing to do, though.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I suppose it depends on the NPC's goals. Most of my NPCs would have attacked any feeble wizardly looking fellows as they tend to be most affected when their Con is drained (due to low hp) and they do not have good Fort saves. On the other hand, focusing on a single target also makes sense, whittling down who you see to be a threat, then surgically removing them at the appropriate time.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Was he supposed to try to avoid you? Did the NPC know you had fire resistance? You couldn't have suffered much damage from that. A 16th level maximised fireball with a successful save only causes 18 points of damage if your have fire resistance 30. The other one probably didn't do anything.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, it seems somewhat strange to me that the evil NPC (he is evil, right? or were you going on a murderous rampage for some other reason?) would not kill the rest of the party. But if he had another purpose with them it seems reasonable that he would let the rest go. Also, if the rest of the party quickly became non-agressive after one of their members fell, the NPC may decide that there is no need to kill them. After all, he has shown them his superior strength and probably doesn't feel any real threat from them. Might as well use them for what they're worth.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Then you might as well remove the Intelligence score from the game as you have made it serve no purpose other than for skill points. You have also taken much away from many of your creatures. If a dragon is just a flying, fire-breathing lizard, then that's how it will appear to the players.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In my experience, DMs only min/max when their players force them to. Pick feats, etc. that are appropriate for your character rather than those that will make you a powerhouse. The DM will most likely follow suit. And the game will be much more enjoyable for all, as the challenge level is maintained but you are not consumed by number crunching.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, maybe you should create a character that makes sense and not one that does only one thing really good (like AC in this case). If the DM threw an opponent at you that had an AC of 55, what would the party do? If they're not incompetent, they would do EVERYTHING BUT standard attacks. Grappling, spells, etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It sounds more to me like you choose to expend the time doing number crunching. I can roll up a 17th level non-wizard in about 10 minutes no problem. I think of a character personality and background and just make the logical choices, rather than work out all the options in the game to be really powerful. It's irrelevent. Powerful characters get targeted first, anyway (by intelligent enemies, at least).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I just play. If my character's choices (they're always the character's choices, never mine) get him killed, then I make a new one (I don't think I've ever had a character killed, actually; but some of them have retired after close calls).</p><p></p><p>Motivations are hard to surmise even if you take part in the game, so I can't say for sure why your DM killed you. But, in my opinion, it's probably because your character was waaay to focused on one thing and can't handle the situation when it doesn't fit their talents. Try having the DM create a character for you. If the DM just doesn't like your characters, it'll fix that problem. If it's because of the builds you do, it'll fix that as well. If the DM just likes killing your characters, it'll probably fix that as well, since he would probably feel bad taking out a character he built due to guilt on making a crappy character for you.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="reanjr, post: 1943023, member: 20740"] From the sounds of it, the party is on the powerful side for their level (or min maxed). Four CR 11 creatures, while a tough encounter, I would not construe as unfair (unless this is after several other challenging encounters). A 16th level wizard may have been a bit off unless your party is more than four characters. Well, that's just smart use of a spell. Maybe you shouldn't have seperated yourself from your party. It's kind of hard to justify complaining that something was too powerful just because you've never encountered anything that powerful before. Maybe you should do less hacking and more planning or recon. Rarely is charging the door without an idea of what's behind a good idea. Not to mention as a LG character, why were you on a murderous rampage? I think the NPC was VERY gracious to not kill the rest of the party after your faux pas. If the NPC has an Intelligence of 18+? Of course. It's common sense. Maybe something the party could do with some more of. I'm not sure of the context, but I don't normally have a plan as DM, so this just isn't my style. Doesn't make it the wrong thing to do, though. I suppose it depends on the NPC's goals. Most of my NPCs would have attacked any feeble wizardly looking fellows as they tend to be most affected when their Con is drained (due to low hp) and they do not have good Fort saves. On the other hand, focusing on a single target also makes sense, whittling down who you see to be a threat, then surgically removing them at the appropriate time. Was he supposed to try to avoid you? Did the NPC know you had fire resistance? You couldn't have suffered much damage from that. A 16th level maximised fireball with a successful save only causes 18 points of damage if your have fire resistance 30. The other one probably didn't do anything. Well, it seems somewhat strange to me that the evil NPC (he is evil, right? or were you going on a murderous rampage for some other reason?) would not kill the rest of the party. But if he had another purpose with them it seems reasonable that he would let the rest go. Also, if the rest of the party quickly became non-agressive after one of their members fell, the NPC may decide that there is no need to kill them. After all, he has shown them his superior strength and probably doesn't feel any real threat from them. Might as well use them for what they're worth. Then you might as well remove the Intelligence score from the game as you have made it serve no purpose other than for skill points. You have also taken much away from many of your creatures. If a dragon is just a flying, fire-breathing lizard, then that's how it will appear to the players. In my experience, DMs only min/max when their players force them to. Pick feats, etc. that are appropriate for your character rather than those that will make you a powerhouse. The DM will most likely follow suit. And the game will be much more enjoyable for all, as the challenge level is maintained but you are not consumed by number crunching. Again, maybe you should create a character that makes sense and not one that does only one thing really good (like AC in this case). If the DM threw an opponent at you that had an AC of 55, what would the party do? If they're not incompetent, they would do EVERYTHING BUT standard attacks. Grappling, spells, etc. It sounds more to me like you choose to expend the time doing number crunching. I can roll up a 17th level non-wizard in about 10 minutes no problem. I think of a character personality and background and just make the logical choices, rather than work out all the options in the game to be really powerful. It's irrelevent. Powerful characters get targeted first, anyway (by intelligent enemies, at least). I just play. If my character's choices (they're always the character's choices, never mine) get him killed, then I make a new one (I don't think I've ever had a character killed, actually; but some of them have retired after close calls). Motivations are hard to surmise even if you take part in the game, so I can't say for sure why your DM killed you. But, in my opinion, it's probably because your character was waaay to focused on one thing and can't handle the situation when it doesn't fit their talents. Try having the DM create a character for you. If the DM just doesn't like your characters, it'll fix that problem. If it's because of the builds you do, it'll fix that as well. If the DM just likes killing your characters, it'll probably fix that as well, since he would probably feel bad taking out a character he built due to guilt on making a crappy character for you. [/QUOTE]
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