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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 8047100" data-attributes="member: 2629"> <ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The kobold can see the adventurers approaching (without making a check) because they are carrying a light source (Yes)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The adventurers can't see the kobold at all as long as it stays outside the 40 foot light radius from the torch (assuming they do not have darkvision or the kobold is outside the range of darkvision - yes_)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The kobold can try to hide in the dim light of the torch (between 20 and 40 feet from the fighter, let's assume it's 30 feet away) (maybe - up to the DM.  The DM decides when circumstances are appropriate for hiding.  The guidance is that you lose your hide 'condition' if the target can see you clearly.  It is up to the DM to determine if you can be "seen clearly".  Most DMs seem to require heavy obscurement to hide as there are specific racial abilities that allow it in light obscurement which would be irrelevant otherwise.  In my campaigns, you can hide (if silent) in heavy obscurement always, and you can hide in light obscurement when the cirucmstances support it in my judgement)   </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The kobold doesn't have a Stealth score, so uses its Dexterity bonus (+2) to hide (yes)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The kobold's Dexterity (Stealth) check is opposed by the passive Perception scores of the PCs (yes, unless the DM rules otherwise.  For example, I rule that characters are using their perception actively and give them a roll if PCs are not double moving or taking other actions).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The passive Perception score is penalized by -5 because of the dim light (it would be if relevant - perhaps if the kobold approaches from behind a concealing obstacle)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Let's assume the fighter with the torch fails his passive Perception check, he is now surprised (whether there is surprise or not is entirely up to the DM)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Let's assume the kobold wins initiative and goes first (no … ok, you talked me into it)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The kobold can now use its move (30 feet) to approach the fighter (yes)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">After the first 10 feet of movement, the kobold enters the area of 20 feet bright illumination around the fighter, but does not need to make a new Stealth check (generally no - the kobold's hide 'condition' ends at the moment it can be seen clearly, which it does when it enters the bright light.  However, if the DM rules the PCs are distracted, the kobold might still be able to approach and get advantage.  It is a DM call.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The kobold still counts as an "unseen attacker" and can attack the fighter with advantage on the attack roll (see above)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">After making the first attack, the kobold has now given away his location (regardless of whether he hits or misses), and is no longer unseen (generally yes, although the DM might rule that a missed attack and a distracted PC might not give away the location.  It is up to the DM.</li> </ol>In the end, the first sentence of the Hiding rules is the key language.  The DM decides when circumstances are appropriate for hiding.  They had the opportunity to make very complex and detailed hiding rules or to give a little general guidance and tell the DM to make judgment calls.  They chose the second approach to avoid rules with nuances that resulted in chaos and frustration. They discussed their approach when the rules were released. Here are my hiding guidelines for players:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">As long as you are being quiet (and the target has no relevant advanced sense of smell, etc..), you can always try to hide when heavily obscured or totally concealed.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Unless the target is either not using an action to do something or is using their action to do perception checks, you use the creature's passive perception.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">As long as you are being quiet, you can hide in light obscurement if the target is distracted (using their action for something other than perception) or you have an ability that allows it.  Note that perception checks relying on sight are at disadvantage in light obscurement, meaning generally that passive perception is at -5.  </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If you successfully hide, you remain hidden until either 1.) the target sees you clearly (bright light), smells you, feels you, or hears you; or 2.) the target sees you via light obscurement and is not distracted.  </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You can move quietly at normal speed if hidden without requiring a new stealth role unless there is a change in your environment that calls for it (stepping into broken glass, etc...)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If a creature has darkvision, and no dim light support, you are lightly obscured from it.  That means that if you can distract the enemy (or it distracts itself), you can approach it while hiding.  </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If a creature is distracted and has the aid of bright light (or otherwise could 'see you clearly', such as when it has blindsight), you can attempt to approach it while staying hidden by making an additional stealth check. If you move more than half your speed while approaching, this role is made at disadvantage.  This would be an additional role made at that time, in addition to the one you made to enter the 'hidden condition' when you could not be perceived so easily)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If you are hidden from a creature and lose the hidden 'condition' due to lack of concealment, etc... you must use a hide action to restore the hidden condition versus that creature.</li> </ul></blockquote>

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