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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 7465986" data-attributes="member: 6795602">If Hit Points are desired to be separated out into actual physical trama damage and abstract plot armor then some kind of vitality system is required.&nbsp; So in that sense vitality is the only solution to 1.&nbsp; (Well provided you don't want all D&amp;D characters to be as tough or tougher than Wolverine).#2 has far simpler solutions.&nbsp; Remove death saves and add vitality points.&nbsp; There is no other mechanic that needs added.&nbsp; Just simply removing death saving throws and adding in vitality points solves all your stated issues here.&nbsp; So where is all the focus on adding a separate state after this that removes some actions as opposed to allowing you to take all actions?&nbsp; I see it mentioned that this is better than death saves because it gives you some actions at full strength and others at a weakened strength to resolve your death other than healing.&nbsp; But wouldn't it be better from a game perspective to have all actions be full strength at that point?&nbsp; Why justify something by saying it plays better than death saves but then defend it from another mechanic using that same justification with &quot;realism&quot;?#3&nbsp; Gaining extra Vitality points per level kind of takes away the context of what vitality points actually are.&nbsp; They are meat.&nbsp; They are constitution.&nbsp; They are not experience based which is what level&nbsp; represents.&nbsp; By making vitality points scale with level you are losing some of the internal consistency you originally had around the concept.All that said I am personally opposed to vitality points because I don't want the hero to only ever get meaningfully hit after his hp is depleted.&nbsp; Classic HP can't be all meat but depriving it of any meat doesn't really feel right either IMO.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 7465986, member: 6795602"] If Hit Points are desired to be separated out into actual physical trama damage and abstract plot armor then some kind of vitality system is required. So in that sense vitality is the only solution to 1. (Well provided you don't want all D&D characters to be as tough or tougher than Wolverine). #2 has far simpler solutions. Remove death saves and add vitality points. There is no other mechanic that needs added. Just simply removing death saving throws and adding in vitality points solves all your stated issues here. So where is all the focus on adding a separate state after this that removes some actions as opposed to allowing you to take all actions? I see it mentioned that this is better than death saves because it gives you some actions at full strength and others at a weakened strength to resolve your death other than healing. But wouldn't it be better from a game perspective to have all actions be full strength at that point? Why justify something by saying it plays better than death saves but then defend it from another mechanic using that same justification with "realism"? #3 Gaining extra Vitality points per level kind of takes away the context of what vitality points actually are. They are meat. They are constitution. They are not experience based which is what level represents. By making vitality points scale with level you are losing some of the internal consistency you originally had around the concept. All that said I am personally opposed to vitality points because I don't want the hero to only ever get meaningfully hit after his hp is depleted. Classic HP can't be all meat but depriving it of any meat doesn't really feel right either IMO. [/QUOTE]

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