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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GreenTengu" data-source="post: 6938036" data-attributes="member: 6777454">It is the only class I have ever seen everyone say HAS to level dip to Fighter for at least one level. But, yes, I was misinformed in thinking it used Intelligence for spell-casting. I thought something other than Wizard had to-- but, nope. Turns out Wizard is the odd man out, literally the only class to in which it pays to have an Intelligence above 6.Would you care to elaborate on any instance in which your group actually used the Intelligence attribute for well... literally anything...That wasn't inconsequential... oh, and wasn't a situation in which it wasn't perfectly fine if only one party member made the check and everyone had the chance...No, of course not. Just insults. Empty claims because you don't care for the truth of a statement.Yes, DPR is part of the game-- hint, your character doesn't survive long nor does the party if you decide to ignore it. Ignoring it IS the niche-- YOU are the niche, not I.But looking past simply DPR, Skills are things your character can actually DO. Most attributes help you be more successful when you attempt to do things. Except Constitution is the odd stat out in that it doesn't help you do anything-- it is mostly just a static hit point per level which is too small of a difference unless you play a class with a very small hit die to matter given the large amounts of damage both characters and monsters put out. An extra point of AC which grants you an additional 5% chance that 50+ dmg point attacks miss matters a lot more than 10 extra hit points.Cantrips are options, it increases the amount of things your character can do. Making a roll you missed by 1-3 points only under the circumstances that you are surrounded by friends... that's not much of an option. It doesn't help you do anything and only very marginally helps you succeed.A +1 to all your most important rolls all the time is going to matter a lot more than even a +5 to a roll you failed once or twice a day. Unless the party takes frequent short rests, it just isn't going to come into play often enough to be of benefit.And, again, getting to choose 2 martial weapons is meaningless because over 2/3rds of the classes already come with the ability to use all weapons that they would be remotely effective using.No, no, no... oh, let me guess. You wanted your Rogue to forgo sneak attack so that he could use a halberd just for <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> and giggles... and yet accuse ME of being the niche audience.It is very simple. The higher chance a character has of succeeding on each roll during the course of the game directly equates to just how viable the character is for play. An unviable character will not only leave you feeling you are contributing nothing by your presence, but will actually reduce the chance of success at everyone else at the table. Sure-- you can forgo dungeon crawling and battles all together and ignore skill rolls and just you know... crumple up the first page of your character sheet where all the numbers are located and just free form the whole thing. Don't even need a PHB or MM for that! By all means, you are welcome to do that.But THAT is the niche play style. Looking at the actual effectiveness of a character in and out of combat and formulating their general chances of successfully passing the challenges necessary to complete the adventure-- that is the mainstream style of play.And what has been given to the hobgoblin here compared to virtually all other races (there ARE admittedly a few that might be worse) results in a situation where regardless of what class you match it up to, you probably would have been better off going with any other race.If you disagree, go ahead and explain to me how you could use what has been given here to create a hobgoblin character of any class that has as many options available and would be as successful at passing the challenges presented in the typical adventure as a High Elf or Mountain Dwarf PC would be.As for your argument of Hobgoblins being the most tactical of the goblinoids? While that may be true, it is far more true that they are known for being far less book-smart, informed and technology-savvy than nearly all other races. Dexterity, Charisma and even Wisdom are all far more justifiable than claiming the average Hobgoblin is the intellectual equivalent of a high elf.And, honestly... if they had just gotten maybe a skill proficiency of any kind. Athletics, Stealth, Intimidation... SOMETHING, I don't even care what it is... I think it would be a lot closer to being well-balanced. Orcs, Goblins and Bugbears all got one after all and their racial abilities are a hell of a lot better than simply passing one narrowly missed roll once per short rest.If my username didn't clue you in-- I am going to feel compelled to use whatever trash I was handed for racial stats regardless. But I would for once like to feel I am not being forced to go effectively between half a level to an entire damn level behind the rest of the party as was true in 2nd edition and 3rd edition.It is well known that regardless of your personal perception of how they are different, even in the printed modules, and much more so at your average game, any time Investigation could be used, the DMs call for Perception checks instead-- or at least allow Perception to substitute in. Moreover, Perception allows you to identify immediate risks which Investigation does not-- it is a flat out worse and more limited skill.Every time I have seen any skill from the Intelligence pool called for in a game, it has always been the case that it is fine if only a single PC passes the test as that one PC can then relate the information along to everyone else in the party. As opposed to failing a Dexterity test in which you actually lose hit points or a Perception test in which you take an entire round of damage before you can even act or a Strength check which might deny you an entire round of action as you are forced to simply take damage...Even when used as a save, the cost of failing Intelligence checks tends to be far less costly than nearly any other attribute. So I would like to know how any individual in a group could possibly be suffering from a low Intelligence Attribute and wouldn't be suffering a whole lot more if any other attribute were the deficiency.</blockquote>

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