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Message: <blockquote data-quote="irdeggman" data-source="post: 3746471" data-attributes="member: 16285">Back to the OP original situation.A doppleganger has "replaced" the party cleric and then essentially turns on an injured part memebe.The OP talked about sense motive vs bluff and disguise checks to determine the situation.Well per the Disguise skill:SRD[quote[If you are impersonating a particular individual, those who know what that person looks like get a bonus on their Spot checks according to the table below. Furthermore, they are automatically considered to be suspicious of you, so opposed checks are always called for.</blockquote> The bonuses run from +2 to +10.A doppleganger gets a +10 to disguise checks when shape changing, an additinal +4 racial bonus and potentially an additional +4 if it can read an opponent's mind. Which will pretty much negate most if not all of the bonuses the PCs could get from "knowing" their ally and still give some pluses.But knowing how the usual party has at least one memeber with really large Spot bonuses I find it very difficult to see how a doppleganger could decieve a party when replacing one of its members for any length of time. 1 disguise check, can't take 20 if it is based on a shape change and the fact that they become more suspicious if you fail a disguise puts the bonus for the situation at a penalty (at least the way I would read it). I have diffiuculty applyng take 10 to a shape change situation but can't see where it isn't allowed.[/QUOTE]

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