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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wyvernhand" data-source="post: 6014477" data-attributes="member: 97681">Just because you can fix it, doesn't mean it's not broken.I only have the zeal I do because I've seen it impact games negatively on both sides of the DM screen.  Thats why I don't use it anymore.  It wasn't fun for me, and it wasn't fun for those I was playing with.And anyways, why do people debate ANYTHING on the internet?  Generally, its not to convince the strong proponents of the opposite side.  Generally, its so that others reading in the debate, or who stumble upon this thread in the future, can read about the topic and form their own opinion.  I'm not saying that playing with crit fumbles is wrongbadfun.  I'm merely saying that I don't think its fun, and I don't think the current system models it well, and the effort spent on fixing it is probably not worth it vs time spent on other aspects of the game that need more attention, or time just plain spent staring at a tree.I don't think I've insulted anyone by stating my opinions.  I've simply said why I believe it doesn't work, and why I don't believe other proposed fixes might actually add something meaningful to the game.And D&D doesn't really model combat well, either cinematic or real, especially above level 6 or so.  At mid-high levels, its a better option for a fighter to full attack and get his iterative attacks (plus Haste and other goodies) than it is for him to leap dramatically onto a table top to attack down from higher ground.  And it is more advantageous for the foe he's attacking to full attack back, rather than try to attempt some sort of check to flip the table over out from under him because at most, the foe will take 1d6 damage for falling and possibly be prone vs 3 attacks at ~20 damage apiece, for example.  Barring ToB, full attack is king, and anything a melee character does that isn't a full attack (or a charge for a properly built charging character) is generally a sub-par action compared to that full attack with all of it's bonuses.  You can't roll away from attacks easily in a dramatic fashion like heroes do on TV, because per the rules, crawling is a full round action to move 5' and provokes an AoO and there are no rules for tumbling while prone.  The best option there is to stand up and eat the AoO to get at least 1 attack (better PA for a lot), attack from prone at -4, or, if you have it, utilize some sort of short range teleport (via item or spell) to move away from the threat.If you really want a style of combat like that, Fate is EXCELLENT for it.  The more creative you are, the more likely your crazy antics or realistic combat options work.  D&D 3.5 just doesn't model it well, and changing it so that it DOES work like that only proves my point.  D&D fails at gritty combat, especially at higher levels.  Adding critical fumbles doesn't make the game more gritty.  It just makes the game more silly (IMO).</blockquote>

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