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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Timmer" data-source="post: 4330530" data-attributes="member: 62498">*waves*If I may interject. I actually find this conversation enlightening and hope none of the participants are taking the other side personally!What I wanted to say is that I think both sides are arguing from the wrong angle. If I may...I am reminded of my favorite card game (The Spoils, RIP) with beautiful rules. There was lots of discussions about rules on cards being played. It took a while to get ones head wrapped around them but it went something like this:You can play a card but the card at that point has not been played.Once you play a card, triggers occur, etc. If the card is still valid/alive at that point it can be put into play.Once a card is put into play in this manor it has been played.Not all cards will enter play and will have been played; for example, another card rule may put a card into play. It is in play but has not been played.Further, a player may play a card but something will occur that keeps it from being put into play and therefore from being played.Sorry for my ramble. The reason I bring that up is that it sounds obtuse at first but once you realize play, been played, and entered play were keywords with their various triggers, this made cards and their effects easier to understand (stuff like "When a card enters play, do X" or "When a card has been played", etc).Now back to this discussion....I feel that people are arguing too high level. The real question is:1. Is damage roll a keyword rule or is it more a vague expression like "I rolled a fighter character last night" (you may have not rolled a single die!)... if you think it is a keyword rule, then ...2. does it refer to the act of rolling die or the act of computing damageOnce those questions are answered, the rest follows. And, now, back to the show! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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