Vow of nonviolence is a prereq for VoPeace..it offers +4 dc on all non killing dc's?

[Sir ThornCrest]

So my Monk with Touch of Golden Ice should receive an additional +4 on top of the DC14 ToGI comes with = DC18? Is there a Ability modifier that adds/stacks with it?

I realize it says nothing that drains ability scores but touch of golden ice makes ice appear on out side of creature touched and does not lower the dex score persae it makes it hard to move with all the ice.....

agreed? or no? and is their an ability mod I can add to the save for ToGI, If there is I didnt see it.

Thorncrest

 

[UltimaGabe]

Touch of Golden Ice isn't some special ability that's based on your character- all it does is affect everyone you touch with the Golden Ice affliction (which is in the earlier section, Ravages & Afflictions). It has a set DC because it's a disease, not a special ability- and the +4 from Vow of Nonviolence or whatever doesn't apply.

 

[Ferrix]

That last bit is disputed actually. Most supernatural powers (exalted feats are all supernatural) have a saving throw DC of 10 + 1/2 hd + Charisma modifier. Wizards hasn't provided any specific clarification here, but as most poisons DC's (which ravages mimic) are based off of the HD of the creature inflicting the poison, an argument can be made for the same thing regarding ravages, which include Golden Ice.

Also note, Golden Ice is a ravage not an affliction. And ravages are to poison what afflictions are to disease.

Additionally, Vow of Nonviolence states: "The saving throw DC for spells you cast or other special abilities is increased by +4 if the spell does not deal damage (including ability damage but not nonlethal damage), bestow negative levels, or cause death. ... The benefit of this feat extends to special abilities other than spells that allow a saving throw, but only if the ability does not deal damage and is not dependant on dealing damage."

Thus, Vow of Nonviolence would not increase the DC by 4 because Touch of Golden Ice inflicts ability damage. This is despite the fact that you can inflict it without dealing other kinds of damage. They even give the example of Coutl venom not becoming more virulent (increase in DC) because of the feat. So, no Vow of Nonviolence would not increase the DC. And it is a special ability of your character so if it qualified (by not dealing damage, which sadly it doesn't) it would qualify for the increase. The feat gives the example of using a Stunning Attack via a nonlethal unarmed strike would actually benefit from the +4 bonus to DC.

However the other issue is that Touch of Golden Ice doesn't specify that the save DC is set as the standard listed Golden Ice or as a supernatural ability (which it is), and it could go officially either way. Talk to your DM cause only that will give you a decisive answer. I would go the way of it being a supernatural ability, but that's mostly to because otherwise the feat becomes almost useless at high levels.

 

[Sir ThornCrest]

I was under the inpression that golden ice was ice appearing on exterior of victim

and sends cold shivers thru victim, but does not actually drain or cause ability damage rather it made ice appear on skin thus hampering movement...where is there a detailed description of golden ice?

Thorncrest

 

[Ferrix]

and sends cold shivers thru victim, but does not actually drain or cause ability damage rather it made ice appear on skin thus hampering movement...where is there a detailed description of golden ice?

Thorncrest

Book of Exalted Deeds, pg. 34 & 35 describe how ravages and afflictions work. Golden Ice's description is on page 35. "Evil creatures subjected to it feel its cold spreading throughout their bodies." It is a ravage which causes ability damage, the description is merely that, description. Think of it as a holy poison which stills the muscles, it would make them feel like they are getting cold, but it doesn't actually inflict any sort of cold damage nor does it have any sort of cold descriptor.

 

[Darkness]

That last bit is disputed actually. Most supernatural powers (exalted feats are all supernatural) have a saving throw DC of 10 + 1/2 hd + Charisma modifier.

I'd use Con modifier for ravages, kinda like with poisons/diseases, generally including supernatural ones. (Unless you're undead, in which case Cha it is.) YMMV, of course.

 

[Sir ThornCrest]

If its a pioson then how does it effect undead?

Again I was under the impression that it made ice appear on the outside of touched victims.

Thorncrest

 

[Darkness]

Right, it's not a poison. It's a ravage, which is kind of like a poison except Exalted. Ravages affect the undead just fine (BoED, p.35) unless, like golden ice, they do damage to physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) or any kind of ability drain (i.e., permanent damage).


Hm. On a second thought, ChaMod might really be better than ConMod for ravages.

 

[Sir ThornCrest]

so it doesnt work against undead?
Thorncrest

Right, it's not a poison. It's a ravage, which is kind of like a poison except Exalted. Ravages affect the undead just fine (BoED, p.35) unless, like golden ice, they do damage to physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) or any kind of ability drain (i.e., permanent damage).


Hm. On a second thought, ChaMod might really be better than ConMod for ravages.