Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Enchanted Trinkets Complete--a hardcover book containing over 500 magic items for your D&D games!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Vow of Poverty and Level Adjustment
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="ruleslawyer" data-source="post: 1253270" data-attributes="member: 1757"><p>All true, and nothing new.</p><p></p><p>This, OTOH, I completely disagree with. A lammasu (they're not Welsh <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> ) PC that doesn't use its full allotment of gear is not an ECL x character; it's an ECL (x-y) character, where y>0. The fact is that 88k worth of equipment is 88k worth of equipment whether you're character level 12 with no LA or character level 4 with +8 LA. A lammasu can use stat-boosting items, tomes, mantles of SR; in fact, all of the items that VoP's benefits appear to replace.</p><p></p><p>I don't understand what your point is here. VoP replaces the benefits of having magic items: i.e., equipment. A character that is <em>weapon</em> or <em>armor</em>-dependent incurs a higher sacrifice to get this feat's benefits than one who isn't, but ultimately, a +x enhancement bonus to an ability score, some SR, and a DR-piercing capability are just straightforward compensations for the lack of a belt/headband/gloves, a mantle, and an amulet, respectively. IOW, VoP <em>does</em> serve as an equipment replacement; it's just that the <em>kind</em> of equipment replaced by VoP has a different effect on different kinds of character. If you're looking for VoP to replace weapons, one-shot magic items, armor, or scrolls, you're SOL; if you're looking for it to replace stat-boost items and amulets of mighty fists (as most monks are), you're in luck.</p><p></p><p>In any case, the point is that VoP's application differs on the <em>kind</em> of character to whom it's applied, not that character's ECL. A vampire fighter gets much less mileage out of VoP than does, say, a human monk of the same ECL. You used the example of a hobgoblin; do you think a hob fighter/rogue really gets more benefit out of VoP than his human counterpart? The differences between character type (equipment-dependent vs. non-equipment dependent) are much more serious than any difference between LA creatures and non-LA creatures.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ruleslawyer, post: 1253270, member: 1757"] All true, and nothing new. This, OTOH, I completely disagree with. A lammasu (they're not Welsh ;) ) PC that doesn't use its full allotment of gear is not an ECL x character; it's an ECL (x-y) character, where y>0. The fact is that 88k worth of equipment is 88k worth of equipment whether you're character level 12 with no LA or character level 4 with +8 LA. A lammasu can use stat-boosting items, tomes, mantles of SR; in fact, all of the items that VoP's benefits appear to replace. I don't understand what your point is here. VoP replaces the benefits of having magic items: i.e., equipment. A character that is [i]weapon[/i] or [i]armor[/i]-dependent incurs a higher sacrifice to get this feat's benefits than one who isn't, but ultimately, a +x enhancement bonus to an ability score, some SR, and a DR-piercing capability are just straightforward compensations for the lack of a belt/headband/gloves, a mantle, and an amulet, respectively. IOW, VoP [i]does[/i] serve as an equipment replacement; it's just that the [i]kind[/i] of equipment replaced by VoP has a different effect on different kinds of character. If you're looking for VoP to replace weapons, one-shot magic items, armor, or scrolls, you're SOL; if you're looking for it to replace stat-boost items and amulets of mighty fists (as most monks are), you're in luck. In any case, the point is that VoP's application differs on the [i]kind[/i] of character to whom it's applied, not that character's ECL. A vampire fighter gets much less mileage out of VoP than does, say, a human monk of the same ECL. You used the example of a hobgoblin; do you think a hob fighter/rogue really gets more benefit out of VoP than his human counterpart? The differences between character type (equipment-dependent vs. non-equipment dependent) are much more serious than any difference between LA creatures and non-LA creatures. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Vow of Poverty and Level Adjustment
Top