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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jackinthegreen" data-source="post: 6264432" data-attributes="member: 6678119">There's no rage on my side (I don't dare get angry lately since I'd be liable to throw up), but I'm just trying to point out the example was odd given the (lack of) workings in D&D.  The spell granting claw attacks to something that normally doesn't have them seems more straightforward and much less meta than pondering over whether VoP's effects are tied to the creature's natural form.  The latter certainly needs many more rules references to work out than the former.  And even the rules references themselves might be found to be overwritten or contradictory since WotC sometimes does that.For example, if we're going to reference the SRD (which is presumably kept up to date with all errata and other such changes) we see that <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorph.htm" target="_blank">Polymorph</a> leads back to <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/alterSelf.htm" target="_blank">Alter Self</a> which stipulates that the caster retains all supernatural and spell-like special qualities and attacks of its natural form with some exceptions.Yet, if we look at the polymorph rules in Rules Compendium page 122, it very plainly says   But then it goes on to say: Emphasis added in the last part.  So if we go strictly by the first part then all special abilities, extraordinary and otherwise, are lost upon being targeted by a polymorph effect.  However, going by the wording in the actual Alter Self spell says that some special qualities are retained.So which one should be used?  It's up to the DM since the rules themselves seem contradictory.  So long as you're consistent you shouldn't get called an ass I would think.</blockquote>

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