Vrocks: not exactly scary in the air

[carborundum]

I was so looking forward to DM-ing a dramatic aerial battle with my group vs some Vrocks. I'd bought Vrock minis months in advance, invested in Combat Tiers flight bases, everything. Unfortunately the evil roosters turned out to be a bit of a damp squib. With their average flying ability they HAVE to move 25 feet every round and can only make 45degree turns. All those attacks, all those pointy bits, and they couldn't do more than one claw attack (and the occasional spore spray) before overshooting the hovering party members who are peppering them with spells and arrows. Teleport to the party's side? The party fly away, and the vrock plummets out of the sky if it doesn't start flapping!

Did I make an awful blunder or are they not the aerial avengers I always imgined? There are two left alive so any tips are welcome!

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I don't think they're meant to dominate the skies, I've mostly used them on the ground, with the flight helpul to reach a target but not used too much. It's strange you bombed with them. I've often found WotC had wet beds for the demonkin and gave them grossly overpowered stat blocks for their CR. Vrocks in particular I recall being a tough fight for my group multiple times, and my group is pretty good at optimizing. I mean cripes, Vrocks even get the literally impossible to resist Spores attack!

(Side note, my group gave Spores a fort save DC of 10 + 1/2 HD + Con mod and treated it as a poison for racial save bonuses, immunities, etc... I recommend adopting such a rule)

Pertaining to your encounter, two notes:

1. Did you try stunning screech? Depending on how the party was getting its flight, a failed save might cause them to plummet themselves.

2. A monster's feats can be changed if you as the DM want to. Really, it's not that hard. You can even give the monster class levels for abilities you can't buy with feats (this sentence would be linking to the Lion Totem Barbarian variant from C.Champion that grants pounce with only 1 level in Barb, if I knew somewhere on the web that had it)

 

[carborundum]

Yeah, they saved against the screeches ;-)

I'd given the vrocks Fly-by Attack but it so should have been Hover. I'd always had this idea of aerial stormtroopers and never thought to study the statblock properly. The 'Average' was a surprise, I guess. I also had them all drink potions of invisibility and another bad guy gave them See Invisibilty too. The party wiz had See Invisibility, and Glitterdust memorized...

It's one of a number of encounters (Assault on Farshore, Savage Tide) and I was kind of fixated on an aerial battle. The players, of course, were initially terrified and that was the point. Now they have an idea how tough they actually are - also a good thing. I just kind of ... wanted to actually hurt a few ;-)

Thinking about it - I don't see how Vrocks can do a Dance of Ruin above a town unless they start between 75 and 150 feet away from where they want it to go off and fly in formation, holding hands! Not with the flying rules as they stand. I suppose they could always land, but that's not the same scary image of capering demons dancing down destruction.

I'll just have to rework the next adversary to give them a proper challenge, I guess!

 

[Dandu]

You're the DM. Give them the abilities you want and let your players figure it out.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Well, it sounds like the party won with tactics, so it can't be that bad.

And as I linked above, no reason to spend a feat on hover when you can get that ability and more by just taking Improved Flight. Good maneuvering allows hovering, and makes several other aerial maneuvers less costly in lost speed. Really, as far as I'm concerned, Imp. Flight is a no-brainer feat for anyone with average flight if the book is allowed. All of my druids (flying animals tend to have average) and arcanists (I prefer flight of the dragon, which gives speed 100 but only average maneuvering and range: personal, to Fly) tend to pick it up eventually.

If you were using spells/items, there are also spells in Spell Compendium and elsewhere to improve maneuverability.

 

[carborundum]

You're right and I am quite happy with them winning by tactics, I'm not the adversarial type of DM. I just didn't get a CR9 feel from my vrocks and wondered if I was the only person who didn't know they were better on the ground

@Dandu - True... but once I've decided I am duty-bound to keep them consistent. Suddenly remembering how to do a wingover after being tricked into a stall three times isn't really fair

That Improved Flight is the business - no doubt about that!

Let's see - they were gated in and spent a week below deck on a ship crossing heavy seas - they were seasick!

 

[coyote6]

FWIW, the Hover feat wouldn't have helped; hovering in place is a move action, so still no full attacks.

 

[carborundum]

D'oh! <flicks through rules>

He just needs Good maneuverability and he can hang there like a feathered shredder! Thanks for the pointer - we're back to Improved Flight.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Yeah, they saved against the screeches ;-)

I'd given the vrocks Fly-by Attack but it so should have been Hover. I'd always had this idea of aerial stormtroopers and never thought to study the statblock properly. The 'Average' was a surprise, I guess. I also had them all drink potions of invisibility and another bad guy gave them See Invisibilty too. The party wiz had See Invisibility, and Glitterdust memorized...

See invisible is personal. How did he make a potion/cast spell on them?
See Invisibility :: d20srd.org

 

[carborundum]

Ah, yeah - that's one of those things that freaked the party out too.

Short version, they'll find out in about 4 levels.
Long version: The other bad guy was an agent of Khala, an Aspect of Demogorgon. With Khala being an alchemical genius and all, I let him make Personal potions. He passed them on to cause unrest. Plus, the Big D wasn't pleased when the party trashed his temple in an earlier adventure.

EDIT: Means the party can loot a few after the battle and be very happy!
EDIT: Now I'm doubting myself - I just had a thought - could it just as easily have been on a scroll or in a wand... or would it till have range Personal and only work on the caster? Not relevant, but nagging at me now ;-)