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<blockquote data-quote="gizmo33" data-source="post: 4814814" data-attributes="member: 30001">These are arguably two of the most extreme modules in this area.&nbsp; By far.&nbsp; &quot;Barrier Peaks&quot; was, importantly, set in a space ship that crashed from *somewhere else*.&nbsp; The technology was *explicity* not native to Greyhawk and these items appeared in no other modules.&nbsp; There are many more modules set in Greyhawk than the mere two that you feel make the case for the whole setting.&nbsp;&nbsp;It was not a &quot;gun&quot; by what IMO is a reasonable definition of the word.&nbsp; It's a magic wand with a glue type effect.&nbsp; A crossbow would be a &quot;gun&quot; by your rather convenient definition of the word.&nbsp; If magic items in a setting constitute &quot;wahoo&quot; then IMO the term is not useful for describing fantasy settings.&nbsp;&nbsp;Right, it was a DnD game, so dungeons full of monsters are the norm.&nbsp; If that's &quot;wahoo&quot; then, again, what exactly is the point?&nbsp; One cannot distinguish between Eberron and Greyhawk because if you put a space-ship-shaped clay model in a dungeon all of the sudden you might as well have a lighning-rail system over your entire world?&nbsp;&nbsp;And, in fact, the same one of two modules that you keep using as an example of the whole.&nbsp; And again, a module that *explicitly* says that it was designed as a break from the &quot;normal campaigning&quot; in the game.&nbsp; What exactly do you think Gygax meant if Dungeonland was the &quot;typical&quot; player experience?&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;So Alaska once had a daytime temperature of 80 degrees, ergo, it's climate is no different than that of Bermuda?&nbsp; IMO you have to&nbsp; characterize the setting based on a generalization on *all* of the data points, if you really want to take 2 of many modules (and nothing in the boxed set) and extrapolate this, you can (because Greyhawk was designed to be customized by the individual DM) but to claim something universal about the setting IMO is not on solid ground.&nbsp;&nbsp;It's not a shopping mall, the comparison is funny but equivocates.&nbsp; Specifically, it's a fortress of evil with some connections to the outer planes.&nbsp; This is not the same thing as an *actual* shopping mall with teleportals to the various outer planes, which I wouldn't be surprised to find in Eberron.&nbsp;&nbsp;How do you measure that?&nbsp; How many points did you give the magical merchant in Newhon that was selling dangerous stuff to Fafrd and co? Or their trip to the lands of the dead?&nbsp;&nbsp;It doesn't remove it, it just isn't there.&nbsp; Fire extinguisher?&nbsp; If that's based on some similar reasoning to your &quot;glue gun&quot; example earlier, then I'd say extremely creative vocabulary might support you here.&nbsp; I'll call a longsword +1 a &quot;magical slicing contraption&quot; and shed no light on this issue.&nbsp;&nbsp;The original DMG gives no indication that the Appratus is unique.&nbsp; Again, if you're willing to take 2 modules and ignore the entire rest of the set then I suppose you can see whatever you want.&nbsp; I could claim that Greyhawk consists entirely of intellgent bunny rabbits based on the same reasoning.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="gizmo33, post: 4814814, member: 30001"] These are arguably two of the most extreme modules in this area. By far. "Barrier Peaks" was, importantly, set in a space ship that crashed from *somewhere else*. The technology was *explicity* not native to Greyhawk and these items appeared in no other modules. There are many more modules set in Greyhawk than the mere two that you feel make the case for the whole setting. It was not a "gun" by what IMO is a reasonable definition of the word. It's a magic wand with a glue type effect. A crossbow would be a "gun" by your rather convenient definition of the word. If magic items in a setting constitute "wahoo" then IMO the term is not useful for describing fantasy settings. Right, it was a DnD game, so dungeons full of monsters are the norm. If that's "wahoo" then, again, what exactly is the point? One cannot distinguish between Eberron and Greyhawk because if you put a space-ship-shaped clay model in a dungeon all of the sudden you might as well have a lighning-rail system over your entire world? And, in fact, the same one of two modules that you keep using as an example of the whole. And again, a module that *explicitly* says that it was designed as a break from the "normal campaigning" in the game. What exactly do you think Gygax meant if Dungeonland was the "typical" player experience? So Alaska once had a daytime temperature of 80 degrees, ergo, it's climate is no different than that of Bermuda? IMO you have to characterize the setting based on a generalization on *all* of the data points, if you really want to take 2 of many modules (and nothing in the boxed set) and extrapolate this, you can (because Greyhawk was designed to be customized by the individual DM) but to claim something universal about the setting IMO is not on solid ground. It's not a shopping mall, the comparison is funny but equivocates. Specifically, it's a fortress of evil with some connections to the outer planes. This is not the same thing as an *actual* shopping mall with teleportals to the various outer planes, which I wouldn't be surprised to find in Eberron. How do you measure that? How many points did you give the magical merchant in Newhon that was selling dangerous stuff to Fafrd and co? Or their trip to the lands of the dead? It doesn't remove it, it just isn't there. Fire extinguisher? If that's based on some similar reasoning to your "glue gun" example earlier, then I'd say extremely creative vocabulary might support you here. I'll call a longsword +1 a "magical slicing contraption" and shed no light on this issue. The original DMG gives no indication that the Appratus is unique. Again, if you're willing to take 2 modules and ignore the entire rest of the set then I suppose you can see whatever you want. I could claim that Greyhawk consists entirely of intellgent bunny rabbits based on the same reasoning. [/QUOTE]

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