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Message: <blockquote data-quote="haakon1" data-source="post: 4817428" data-attributes="member: 25619">Dude, that is traditional, not wahoo.  Wahoo has a few defining elements, as I see it:1) Fantasy elements that have no basis in traditional mythology.  Traditional relies on Norse, Celtic, Greek, Indian, Chinese, etc. mythology plus the modern materials added by Tolkien, Gygax, and Arneson to the traditional larder of D&D fare.  For example, in my two campaigns the PC's have recently been fighting werewolves, orcs, goblins, and ogres.  Wahoo would be enemies like half-bat half-demons ninjas in spacesuits.  Wahoo looks to other sci fi sources, or just straight invent their own stuff.   Traditional looks to what "fits the feel of the campaign".  Wahoo looks to what would be original.2) Magic or sci fi elements and creatures affect the "home" parts of the setting, not just the adventure.  There are magical light bulbs, magical trains, airships, etc.  Stuff that would be very strange or alien to a rider of Rohan are perfectly normal workaday for inhabitants of a wahoo world.3) In the traditional world, fantasy and sci fi elements haven't changed how society works.  Castles and peasants are still pretty much what you'd expect those words to mean, and are common.  In wahoo world, fantasy and sci fi elements have changed things.  Constructs guard towns, and there are 'magical lightbulbs" -- magic is used to provide 21st century norms in the setting.4) "Traditional" PC's have races and classes that are found in the PHB's of 1st-3rd edition.  Human fighters are very common NPC's and occur as PC's fairly often too.  "Wahoo" PC's go well beyond that -- in a true wahoo campaign, a human fighter would be seen as a choice sadly lacking in originality/optimization.5) "Traditional" limits the spices being mixed in a time.  If it's a pyramid, it's going to have mummies, artifacts, traps, rats, scorpions.  Wahoo is happy to pile multiple conflicting fantasy elements on top of each other.  Traditional might have a derelict classic Japanese castle, with a wise talking carp in a well, who tells PC's of the history of the place and advises them on how to defeat the ghosts therein (I've done this).  Wahoo might have a talking, flying carp with psionic powers who wears a spacesuit so he can breath on dry land, and either have it be a PC, or somebody they meet in the "normal home" part of the setting, not just deep in "adventure land".Thinking of it from a movie perspective, these are "traditional": LOTR, 13th Warrior, D&D 2, Conan the Barbarian.  These are "wahoo": Star Wars, D&D 1, Bender's Game.I'm sure there are plenty more examples of each, but that's just to get you started.  Some stuff is in between of course.That sound about right, Hobo?  Asking him, since he started the discussion, but that's what I mean and I think it's what he means.</blockquote>

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