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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kcStranger" data-source="post: 6843314" data-attributes="member: 6824120">I posted before asking for feedback about some changes I was considering for these spells, and I wanted to post one more time to solicit feedback on what I settled on. As I said on my previous post, D&D 5e is intentionally designed with some "overpowered" or even "broken" spells, and if you're OK with that, then there obviously isn't any need to nerf/houserule spells. However, Wall of Force and Forcecage have been generally recognized as potentially problematic in that they allow players (or enemies, for that matter) to handily defeat foes much stronger than them. For instance, following a fairly natural ruling, two level-9 PCs (say, a Bard and a Wizard) could fairly easily defeat a lone Death Knight (CR 17) assuming they both had the chance to take a turn. Bard casts Heat Metal, Wizard casts Wall of Force in a hemisphere, both back beyond 60 feet (the max range for the Death Knight's spells), and voila--victory.The basic problem with Wall of Force and Forcecage is that they have no associated save, allowing enemies to be easily cordoned off. (Wall of Force is probably the most problematic since it is 5th-level, but Forcecage not being a concentration spell is also a major strength.) That said, I was interested in exploring solutions that didn't involve slapping a save on the spell, since the flavor of most magical force spells is "instant effect, no save." (See Magic Missile.) Here's what I came up with.Wall of Force--two edits:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">If you position the wall so that it passes through a space occupied by a creature, the spell fails, and your action and the spell slot are wasted. Justification: Prismatic Wall (9th-level) has this restriction, and I see no reason why Wall of Force (5th-level) shouldn't have it as well.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">A wall of force can be oriented as you choose and can be composed of up to ten 10-by-10-foot panels in any arrangement, as long as they create a flat surface. You may not shape it into a dome or sphere. Justification: Cordoning off powerful enemies with Wall of Force is a very consistent tactic with dome and sphere options. I think that restricting players to a planar wall will encourage creativity (e.g., consideration of terrain when making the wall, possibly using a wall as a shield) as opposed to encouraging them to simply bubble off the most powerful cluster of enemies at the beginning of each encounter. In addition, Prismatic Wall (9th-level) can only be cast as a plane (albeit a larger plane). Finally, Wall of Stone (5th-level) seems much weaker than Wall of Force without this edit. This edit still allows players to use Wall of Force as a no-save wall-off...but they have to be much more creative.</li> </ol>Forcecage--{two edits} one edit:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Only 1,000 gp of ruby dust is required, but it is consumed by the spell. Justification: Although Forcecage can be defeated by magical means, it is nevertheless a very powerful spell that allows certain enemies (even adult dragons depending on how you rule things) to be taken out of commission. Because there is no save, it even gets around legendary resistance. So, I'd like players to think twice about the cost of using it. As for the appropriateness of the cost, I'd point out that Heroes' Feast has the same cost.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">{A forcecage can be destroyed by a disintegrate spell cast at 8th level or higher.} It was pointed out below that the rules for Disintegrate already cover this.</li> </ol>One more edit I'm now considering: A creature with Legendary Resistance can expend one use to break through a Wall of Force or Forcecage. May drop cost of Forcecage to 500 gp if I make that change.Any feedback would be most appreciated. Thanks!</blockquote>

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