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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pielorinho" data-source="post: 949380" data-attributes="member: 259">I'm not entirely clear on this.  First, whether the dragon was held by the thorns for 100 minutes or 10 minutes was immaterial to us:  once we'd held it for half a dozen rounds, we were as safe as we were going to get.  Second, a huge dragon might roll poorly on its strength check a few times to get through the wall of thorns, but surely won't roll poorly for five rounds in a row.  Assuming a strength of 26 (hardly unreasonable for a huge creature), it should only take two rolls of 15 or better to break free (assuming it climbs straight up out of the thorns).  Compare to a wall of force:  a dragon without teleportation magic or a burrowing speed would have no means whatsoever to get free from such a trap.  And if you apply the +8 bonus for being huge and breaking free of bonds (a ruling I'll grudgingly admit is sensible), it could break free in one round by taking ten on its roll, as long as it went straight up.Again, I disagree.  The first casting of it, versus trolls, was useless (I apologize for misremembering why it was useless):  even the damage the archer did to the trolls was counteracted by their regeneration rate, and all the spell did was to delay the battle by several rounds.  The second casting of it, versus monks, was indeed very useful, but no more useful than a wall of force would have been.  And the third casting of it, versus the dragon, potentially protected us from a TPK but had no offensive value whatsoever, inasmuch as it prevented our melee fighters from closing and didn't block the dragon's breath weapon.I use the spell far less often than I use flame strike and greater magic fang.  Its utility is tactical rather than direct-damage.  I'd hate to see the spell nerfed such that it no longer has much tactical utility.  Nevertheless, if you'd prefer me to switch it out for Wall of Stone, I can handle that.Daniel</blockquote>

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