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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pielorinho" data-source="post: 950370" data-attributes="member: 259">I completely agree with you about his tone, and want to distance myself from it.  Neither of us has much experience with fifth level spells.  Just as I get freaked when I see Righteous Might in action, you get shocked & appalled when you see Wall of Thorns come into play.  They're powerful, but we're both learning how powerful.That said, I see only a few of the things you described as being advantageous:1) Damage to large groups:  true, although the damage is frankly minor.  Monks, poor little fleshbags with no natural or manufactured armor, are the perfect targets for the spell; most other creatures will find that their armor negates most of the damage, if not all of it.2) Trapping a 30x30 area:  true.  The AoE is bigger.3) Casting spells at people in it:  this isn't an advantage, because line of effect goes both ways.  Bad guys can cast spells at me, too.  Indeed, because wall of thorns DOESN'T change LoE, it's less useful in terms of being able to alter the battlefield, I'd say.4) Shooting people in it:  same as above.5) Duration: a very minor benefit.  In none of the times I've cast it has the 10 minutes/level instead of 1 minute/level made a difference, and the vast majority of the time, this is true.6) Durability:  this is one that I think should change.  I'd suggest it should have a lower hardness but more hit points than the other damageable wall spells.On the other hand, it's the only real wall spell that doesn't block LoE.  It's the only one that can be dispelled.  It's the only one that can be damaged by fire (at least, I'd assume that you can't burn down a stone wall:  the rules leave this to the DM's judgement).  Wall of force can trap people without allowing a saving throw, and they cannot get out without a burrowing speed or teleportation magics. I do think it's powerful, but I think it's on par with the other wall spells (note that we've only seen one other wall spell in use in our game, and that wasn't in combat).  Nerfing it the way you suggest makes it, I believe, far less useful than other fifth level spells, and leaves the druid's spell list without any all-purpose useful combat spells (besides Summon Nature's Ally and Animal Growth, which for other reasons we're trying to avoid in our campaign).Daniel</blockquote>

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