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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 152893" data-attributes="member: 2011">While I agree with some of what you say about the Sage, this is not a case where he is being arbitrary in my opinion.And, I will gladly explain this based on my own reasoning."The warded creature or object becomes difficult to detect by divination spells such as ...""If a divination is attempted against the warded creature or item, ..."Just because See Invisibility is not listed in the list of divination spells this protects against and See Invisibility is not titled Detect Invisibility, it is hard to fathom that See Invisibility is not a detection spell.You state that it gives the caster enhanced sight.Is it a transmutation spell then?No.It is a divination spell.It does give the caster enhanced divination capability, the ability to see invisible creatures. If the invisible creature is protected against divinations, then a divination enhanced sight will not see the creature.For that matter, Detect Magic is not a Divination spell, rather it is a Universal spell. But, a little common sense must be used here. They screwed up on Detect Magic and should have given it two schools of magic.In any case, the problem with your interpretation is that it puts loopholes in the game.DM 1: See Invisibility and Locate Creature automatically bypass Nondetection.DM 2: See Invisibility can bypass Nondetection, but Locate Creature cannot since it is similar to the Crystal Ball scrying and Locate Object which are explicitly stopped by the Nondetection spell.DM 3: See Invisibility and Locate Creature cannot bypass Nondetection, but Commune automatically can.You see the point? If you do not interpret "If a divination is attempted..." to mean all divinations, then you open the door to forcing DMs to pick and choose, usually during game time, which divinations are stopped and which are not. This not only slows up games, but it also causes tension between DMs and players who think differently about it.The real problem is: which divinations are “similar to the examples”?Should not all divinations that reveal direct information about the creature be stopped? Even Auguries should not include the protected creature (if the DC roll is not made) as part of the factors taken into consideration.And, should it not stop Detect Magic which is not a divination?In 3E, the philosophy is that ties go to the defender. Always error on the side of the defender.Personally, as a player, if I put up Invisibility and Nondetection and my DM does not even roll the Nondetection DC, but just states that the enemy wizard starts targeting me, I'm going to get annoyed if the DM casually states that the Wizard used a Locate Creature or See Invisibility spell to find me.To me, divination is divination is divination. Trying to dissect it into certain types of divinations which work where these "types" are not explicitly called out as game mechanics in the game is a mistake. That's just being arbitrary. IMO. YMMV.</blockquote>

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