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<blockquote data-quote="Balesir" data-source="post: 6138678" data-attributes="member: 27160"><p>You can shoot through enemy in 4E (with a modifier for cover) and you can shoot at things you can't see (Total Concealment modifier applies). Not trying to argue against your basic points, but correcting some mistaken ideas you seem to have about 4E.</p><p></p><p></p><p>True, but I can't think of any <em>healing</em> ones that do that.</p><p></p><p></p><p>And I'll correct this again: you can shoot at (and generally use Ranged or Area powers against) enemies that are behind other enemies in 4E - you just take a 'cover' penalty for doing so.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Jumping up in 4E doesn't get you any more <em>area</em> from a Close Burst at all. It gets more <em>volume</em>, but that is often not very useful, if all your foes are on the ground, say. A more effective use of 3D space is actually to target a burst high enough to miss the close-to-ground layer entirely, when you are facing Large or bigger foes who extend higher than the ground layer - but (non-epic) jumps won't get you that high.</p><p></p><p>To get through 'front lines', there are generally better ways than jumping. Navigate crowds (or the Rogue version of it), teleports (Fey Warlocks are good at this), bashing/manoeuvring (Footwork Lure and/or Tide of Iron are both Fighter At Wills) and other tactics can work without the Opportunity attacks jumping over the line will attract.</p><p></p><p>We have had flight as a PC option for some while in our 4E and, to be honest, it has disadvantages as well as advantages. It may give you good sight lines, but it also makes you a target and gives good sight lines <strong>to you</strong> (as our Wizard has found from time to time). If you are facing flying enemies it gets even worse, since they can now isolate the flyer and mob it (somewhat like birds do IRL), because forced movement upwards works on flyers.</p><p></p><p>Over all I'm with [MENTION=2067]Kamikaze Midget[/MENTION] on this - disallowing flyers completely is just banning some folks' fun. Make it an option - "non-core" if you insist on all that core/optional baloney - for people who want a 'full fat fantasy' experience. Form a combat-tactical point of view, if nothing else, it's great - not because it's "powerful", but because it enables lots of fun fantasy tactics - a game that has tactics all of its own, rather than being hidebound to what we imagine real world historical tactics to have been (often wrongly).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Balesir, post: 6138678, member: 27160"] You can shoot through enemy in 4E (with a modifier for cover) and you can shoot at things you can't see (Total Concealment modifier applies). Not trying to argue against your basic points, but correcting some mistaken ideas you seem to have about 4E. True, but I can't think of any [I]healing[/I] ones that do that. And I'll correct this again: you can shoot at (and generally use Ranged or Area powers against) enemies that are behind other enemies in 4E - you just take a 'cover' penalty for doing so. Jumping up in 4E doesn't get you any more [I]area[/I] from a Close Burst at all. It gets more [I]volume[/I], but that is often not very useful, if all your foes are on the ground, say. A more effective use of 3D space is actually to target a burst high enough to miss the close-to-ground layer entirely, when you are facing Large or bigger foes who extend higher than the ground layer - but (non-epic) jumps won't get you that high. To get through 'front lines', there are generally better ways than jumping. Navigate crowds (or the Rogue version of it), teleports (Fey Warlocks are good at this), bashing/manoeuvring (Footwork Lure and/or Tide of Iron are both Fighter At Wills) and other tactics can work without the Opportunity attacks jumping over the line will attract. We have had flight as a PC option for some while in our 4E and, to be honest, it has disadvantages as well as advantages. It may give you good sight lines, but it also makes you a target and gives good sight lines [B]to you[/B] (as our Wizard has found from time to time). If you are facing flying enemies it gets even worse, since they can now isolate the flyer and mob it (somewhat like birds do IRL), because forced movement upwards works on flyers. Over all I'm with [MENTION=2067]Kamikaze Midget[/MENTION] on this - disallowing flyers completely is just banning some folks' fun. Make it an option - "non-core" if you insist on all that core/optional baloney - for people who want a 'full fat fantasy' experience. Form a combat-tactical point of view, if nothing else, it's great - not because it's "powerful", but because it enables lots of fun fantasy tactics - a game that has tactics all of its own, rather than being hidebound to what we imagine real world historical tactics to have been (often wrongly). [/QUOTE]
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