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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6120310" data-attributes="member: 4937">I grant you that they aren't often treated well.   However, the rogue modron party member in 'Planescape: Torment' was pretty cool.These things don't have to be completely mutually exclusive.And these things are definately not mutually exclusive. Well, I have tried to do that.  If I can't sell you on them, well I can't sell you on them.Personally, I've always liked the vaguely frogish race of alien beings, first because I saw them as a really well designed foe and one of the few foes really capable of taking on a high level party, second because Ygorl and Ssendam were (aside from slightly corny names) really cool, and thirdly because I consider CN one of the consistantly worst done alignments in the game and I've endeavored to make it more interesting and more coherent than it usually is.   I probably wouldn't have started with Slaad if I was working from scratch, but it was what we had.  I don't necessarily consider them any worse of a starting point than any alternative that has been proposed, and they are certainly a more familiar one.   If you've read the link in my sig, you can tell I'm retconning quite a bit that has been expanded on them officially by other people, and that I'm adapting them by way of elaboration into something closer to what I think they should have been from the beginning.   Some 'problems' though with the Slaad are inherent to trying to record and systematize the 'monster' into a rules framework.   Technically of course, it would be better if they were outside the rules, as any codification of them is 'wrong' for thier nature.  But, as a practical matter it works better to codifiy them, and with that comes heirarchies and taxonomies and over simplification.  I have some ideas for fixing that, but I don't mind that as a starting point.Of course, I understand that they aren't everyone's cup of tea.  Other things other people get really into, I don't have the slightest interest in nor do always see why they would.And in any event, I would be quite happy to not include any outsiders in the 1st MM save for those few that get mentioned in the PH rules text (possible familiars, summonable creatures, etc.).  The vast bulk of them can be in a Planar expansion.   The entire planar cosmology is after all optional source material.  There is no reason you have to assume any of it exists.</blockquote>

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