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Message: <blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 6199566" data-attributes="member: 3192">Don't engage in storytelling. How can we tell from what is written in a game book? I would look at the language and the concepts addressed. D&D books include  player turns, rounds of play, resources in the game, the player's game piece and game abilities defined by the rules in relation to other game pieces (player or board), movement speeds (for almost everything), a game clock, tracking all of this, tracking it with a game board (a map in this case), and on and on. There is no end to game rules in early D&D mechanics. And all of these are about enabling players to game - to make strategies based upon their understanding of the game rules so they can think 5, 10, 20 moves ahead. To enable them to master the game as they can. Game rules are unnecessary and irrelevant to storytelling. Freeform storytelling isn't a game because it has no rules for players either to follow or suss out the consequences of. It isn't an analytical enterprise at all. Instead, stuff like tropes are found in stories, self-created expressions where any limitations - rules - are at best considered a necessary evil and worst part about the activity.When are we engaged in game play as art? When we start treating it as such. If you don't want tropes in your game, don't treat it as storytelling. If you don't want to engage in wrestling as theater, don't do so as a wrestler.EDIT - - I should sum up, you can't read a text and know irrefutably it is to be engaged with scientifically, artistically, as a game, and so on. The book presents itself as a game, so treat it as such. Prepare the field of play, everyone learn the rules, and follow them once play begins. I present some of the game mechanics of D&D. You could tell a story about them, but they are designed for being followed in order to play a game IMO.Social contract is about group storytelling and largely a sociological concept. At best, that idea "might" be relevant to the rules of a game, but it is unnecessary. What you are doing isn't playing a game as there are no rules. Treat game like a label that means absolutely everything and you have nothing. What you are doing is storytelling as a group. You are addressing a fiction rather than a game.4e is a storygame about telling stories for the most part. But I disagree that earlier D&D was designed for storytelling. Role playing isn't storytelling and neither is game play.</blockquote>

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