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Wandering Monsters: You Got Science in My Fantasy!
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<blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 6201850" data-attributes="member: 3192"><p>2e is a misinformed presentation (or at least a misrepresentation) of D&D as it was designed. The late 80s came with the desire to trash the game and game play for storytelling and most DMs rebelled calling adventure designers "authors" telling them to go write a novel instead. Claiming long standing failure and confusion is reason enough to continue failing is unfair to everyone. ...But I'll agree we should not attempt to expunge it wholly either. Look at what almost happened to D&D in the last 20 years! And it's still largely unknown to the majority of people playing it today.</p><p></p><p>4e game texts are all about conflating game and game play as storytelling. Referencing the game mechanics as "narrative resolution" rules is enough to define the objective of the game as shared storytelling. As is the idea that the players are "injecting fictional content". There is no fiction or story being added to in D&D. You are talking about the fundamentals of a story game. As far as I know that is exclusively the design of every Forge story game. D&D is a game, not a narrative. Fiction and non-fiction are about reference. Referencing the game rules is dealing with reality. D&D is a fantasy game as that reality is in our heads, but treated as the thing in and of itself it is real - just as when you reference any game.</p><p></p><p>Again, 2e DMG material is completely off base. There wasn't a schism in the early 90s for no reason. OD&D and AD&D have time tracking, just as you would have in any game. Using the game clock wisely is one of the central elements of play in D&D. Pacing, on the other hand, is a narrative conceit. Gamers use time as a game resource as that is what time is for in a game. Storytellers are in total control of it and ignore it altogether if it isn't relevant to the scene. Gamers aren't and can't afford to. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Long before these were fabrications/tropes these (children, elves, angels, demons, dragons) were attempts to understand our world. They hold value due to our actual experiences and commonalities as living creatures in a shared world. It is doubtful they would be tropes for truly alien entities (think Tarkovsky's Solaris). If you want to connect with other people, you need to ditch tropes and start referencing your shared reality. Otherwise you're seeking sustenance from an illusion. </p><p></p><p>I don't mind mixing my stories and games, but the recent attempts to conflate the two as solely narrative by removing all reference to the modern gaming vocabulary for one exclusively using literary theory terms and concepts is due to a small group of highly agitated postmodern absolutists about a dozen years ago. D&D doesn't require character performance and it is not designed for it. That's on purpose. It is designed for role playing.</p><p></p><p>If you want to hire someone to design a game, get a mathematician. If you want to present it clearly and accurately, hire a technical writer. (If you want it to be aesthetically pleasing, hire an artist). ~Creative writing has a place too, but it's not the uber-profession some would have it to be. When did the prejudices of 80's English departments become the unimpeachable foundation of our hobby?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="howandwhy99, post: 6201850, member: 3192"] 2e is a misinformed presentation (or at least a misrepresentation) of D&D as it was designed. The late 80s came with the desire to trash the game and game play for storytelling and most DMs rebelled calling adventure designers "authors" telling them to go write a novel instead. Claiming long standing failure and confusion is reason enough to continue failing is unfair to everyone. ...But I'll agree we should not attempt to expunge it wholly either. Look at what almost happened to D&D in the last 20 years! And it's still largely unknown to the majority of people playing it today. 4e game texts are all about conflating game and game play as storytelling. Referencing the game mechanics as "narrative resolution" rules is enough to define the objective of the game as shared storytelling. As is the idea that the players are "injecting fictional content". There is no fiction or story being added to in D&D. You are talking about the fundamentals of a story game. As far as I know that is exclusively the design of every Forge story game. D&D is a game, not a narrative. Fiction and non-fiction are about reference. Referencing the game rules is dealing with reality. D&D is a fantasy game as that reality is in our heads, but treated as the thing in and of itself it is real - just as when you reference any game. Again, 2e DMG material is completely off base. There wasn't a schism in the early 90s for no reason. OD&D and AD&D have time tracking, just as you would have in any game. Using the game clock wisely is one of the central elements of play in D&D. Pacing, on the other hand, is a narrative conceit. Gamers use time as a game resource as that is what time is for in a game. Storytellers are in total control of it and ignore it altogether if it isn't relevant to the scene. Gamers aren't and can't afford to. Long before these were fabrications/tropes these (children, elves, angels, demons, dragons) were attempts to understand our world. They hold value due to our actual experiences and commonalities as living creatures in a shared world. It is doubtful they would be tropes for truly alien entities (think Tarkovsky's Solaris). If you want to connect with other people, you need to ditch tropes and start referencing your shared reality. Otherwise you're seeking sustenance from an illusion. I don't mind mixing my stories and games, but the recent attempts to conflate the two as solely narrative by removing all reference to the modern gaming vocabulary for one exclusively using literary theory terms and concepts is due to a small group of highly agitated postmodern absolutists about a dozen years ago. D&D doesn't require character performance and it is not designed for it. That's on purpose. It is designed for role playing. If you want to hire someone to design a game, get a mathematician. If you want to present it clearly and accurately, hire a technical writer. (If you want it to be aesthetically pleasing, hire an artist). ~Creative writing has a place too, but it's not the uber-profession some would have it to be. When did the prejudices of 80's English departments become the unimpeachable foundation of our hobby? [/QUOTE]
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