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<blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7964283" data-attributes="member: 6750235">As mentioned earlier, knock is terrible outside of some very situational uses.&nbsp; Invisibility requires those skills to be useful at all and never replaces them; it enables using them in the event there isn't an opportunity to do so.&nbsp; I would suggest reviewing surprise rules because stealth enables surprise a lot even if it cannot bypass some encounters based on circumstances.Cunning action, evasion, uncanny dodge, sneak attack, and reliable talent are all nice abilities that do not require limited resources like spell slots.Reliable talent works well for rogues as the party face.&nbsp; The nature of the DC's and bounded accuracy means increasing the bonuses available has diminishing returns while the avoidance of low rolls increases the success rate for the rogue.I have a lot of fun with those guaranteed DC 20 favor requests that come with persuasion expertise and reliable talent.&nbsp; It's hard to call that second to bards unless the DM is using some higher DC rules not listed.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />The artificer has the same issue as the wizard when it comes to invisibility.&nbsp; Flash of genius helps when it comes online but flash of genius becomes the new bottleneck over spell slots.Anyone who insists invisibility is an issue can MC for it or go arcane trickster for it anyway.&nbsp; Invisibility is not a replacement for stealth abilities.&nbsp; It's a replacement for concealment that enables stealth abilities.Artificers are pretty darned good for ability checks regardless, however; no denying that.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ashrym, post: 7964283, member: 6750235"] As mentioned earlier, [I]knock[/I] is terrible outside of some very situational uses. [I]Invisibility[/I] requires those skills to be useful at all and never replaces them; it enables using them in the event there isn't an opportunity to do so. I would suggest reviewing surprise rules because stealth enables surprise a lot even if it cannot bypass some encounters based on circumstances. Cunning action, evasion, uncanny dodge, sneak attack, and reliable talent are all nice abilities that do not require limited resources like spell slots. Reliable talent works well for rogues as the party face. The nature of the DC's and bounded accuracy means increasing the bonuses available has diminishing returns while the avoidance of low rolls increases the success rate for the rogue. I have a lot of fun with those guaranteed DC 20 favor requests that come with persuasion expertise and reliable talent. It's hard to call that second to bards unless the DM is using some higher DC rules not listed. ;) The artificer has the same issue as the wizard when it comes to [I]invisibility.[/I] Flash of genius helps when it comes online but flash of genius becomes the new bottleneck over spell slots. Anyone who insists [I] invisibility [/I]is an issue can MC for it or go arcane trickster for it anyway. [I]Invisibility[/I] is not a replacement for stealth abilities. It's a replacement for concealment that enables stealth abilities. Artificers are pretty darned good for ability checks regardless, however; no denying that. ;) [/QUOTE]

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