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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7964414" data-attributes="member: 6750235">Back in August the party size and configuration metrics were released from DDB and a 3 person party was far more likely to carry a rogue than a wizard.  Typically the groups were a rogue, a cleric or sometimes a druid, and a fighter or fighter replacement class and the arcane caster was added to the 4 person parties to demonstrate which was being more dispensable.Like I said earlier, rogues have a lot of abilities that are useful in and out of combat, and those spells do not overshadow rogues. I don't take knock.  It takes +2 proficiency and 16 ability score (available at 1st level) to take 10 time the normal time and assume success on any DC 20 lock.  Any DEX build proficient in thieves' tools can do that, and using thieves' tools doesn't cost a spell slot or alert everyone in the immediate area.A climber's kit prevents falling even if a person uses failure equals falling instead of lack of moving forward that attempt because of the anchors. Invisibility is a joke without some DEX and proficiency bonus.  Passive perception with no bonus is 10 so that typically 14 DEX wizard gets noticed a lot while invisible.  Having a place to hide while sucking at being quiet or concealing tracks doesn't help much.  Plus, hiding and stealth are not the same thing.  Hiding is an action to avoid detection.  Being stealthy is moving along quietly trying not to be seen or heard and helps the DM determine surprise / encounter distance at the beginning of the encounter. (EDIT: hiding uses stealth, but stealth encompasses hiding and more.  Invisibility only prevents being seen, and that allows for the benefits that include the option to hide.)Familiars scout using the same ability checks characters do.  The difference is the familiar also has low AC and no hp while most look like food to various predators.  At least familiars are relatively easy to replace.Wizards don't have the spell slots to keep pace with the number of checks rogues can do.  That's also why I prefer bards to wizards even though wizards are better spell casters.  If he wants to be a wizard instead of a rogue then let him.  Heck, make it an online campaign, I'll make the rogue to join, and then he can see how differently they play.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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