Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7964765" data-attributes="member: 6750235">Self-awareness is always a good thing.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Wanting to play a rogue for RP reasons is the place to start but is beside the point.  The discussion was on capability.That's not rogue specific.  It applies to any class that isn't doing anything for a period of time.That's not actually true, which is what was being pointed out.  Wizards do not find and disarm traps well.  Charms are useful short term but normally have issues later.  Some specific spells have already been addressed and debunked, and no further evidence contradicting how those spells fail to compare to rogues has been given.Invisibility is better for bypassing encounters than actually scouting.  It was brought up a lot because it's part of the opening post.  There are other spells and some are very useful but they still cost resources and there's more to rogue's than scouting ahead.Still no different than watching the monk, ranger, bard, DEX fighter, doing it.  Or invisible wizard.Rogues do a lot of damage by adding an additional sneak attack somehow on off turns.  We can post maths if you want but compared to a wizard, rogues kill it with sustained damage.The point of TWF on a rogue isn't the damage from the attack.  It's the damage from the sneak attack if the first attack misses.  If the first attack hits then the off-hand damage is a minor consideration over using cunning action.  Because NPC's don't lock away their valuables?  Multiple locked doors and chests is pretty normal.  Some adventures have a lot.  It's irrelevant though because having a rogue without any time constraint can pretty much ignore them as done.  It's detecting traps and disabling them that becomes more relevant.That doesn't make any sense.  It doesn't grant cunning action, uncanny dodge, reliable talent, extra proficiencies, expertise, and various other abilities rogues possess.  Rogues aren't a single good ability.Except rogues do well in combat for the reasons given with the abilities listed in this thread.10' poles don't even exist in 5e but a discount haggling doesn't relate to the risk criteria in the favors example.  As a player, I take actions that trigger the DM's determination of the outcome.  If I take a lot of actions that involve social interaction then that increases social interaction in the campaign.  If the DM uses a tight rein on the campaign blocking that type of play I would just apply my expertise elsewhere and still have an advantage as a rogue.The speed and range of vision the eye has does not cover that radius.  It only moves 30' with 30' vision.  That crosses a 2 mile diameter about 1.5 times per casting if I'm remembering non-metric distances correctly.Where arcane eye fails is that it essentially maps out terrain over time but doesn't give any information other than sight, takes quite a bit of time, and costs concentration.  It also doesn't give any bonuses to perception (or other checks) getting back to wizards still having to use the ability checks.  Using it all day costs several high level slots just for the time, but more if the wizard ever wants to use a ritual or concentration on something else.Arcane eye is an example of an excellent spell regardless.  Divination is a strong ability in general.  But there's more to playing a rogue than scouting.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I find it pointless to waste spell slots (which are limited and useful for other things) instead of using ability checks and skills that also get the same job done (getting back to one of the things that makes bards good).summary: skills and ability checks are for accessible than they have been in the past, and spells are restricted in a lot of ways.</blockquote>

Verification