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<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 9335151" data-attributes="member: 6877472">I'm sure some people have fun with traps, but they've always felt like a burden.&nbsp; Mostly because traps are fairly binary.It's like a flowchart.&nbsp; Did you notice the trap?&nbsp; N?&nbsp; Take damage/trip an alarm/have progress slowed or stopped.Y?&nbsp; Great, does anyone have the skill to remove the trap?&nbsp; N?&nbsp; Try to find another route or go back to &quot;take damage&quot; etc..Y?&nbsp; Great, make a die roll.&nbsp; Was it high enough?&nbsp; Proceed.&nbsp; N?&nbsp; Go back to &quot;take damage&quot;.Cinematic traps, where you have to figure out clues sound like fun, until I've run one, and then it comes down to &quot;make a die roll or use player knowledge&quot;.Complex &quot;National Treasure&quot; death traps where the party has to work together?&nbsp; Worked better was a 4e style &quot;skill challenge&quot;, but it's not the kind of thing I'd want to use often.The best use for traps I found was during a combat- in an Eberron game I was playing in, we were in a Warforged construction facility (I think the droid factory sequence in Attack of the Clones inspired this) and while we were dealing with guards, we'd have to interact with very deadly aspects of the factory that basically functioned like traps.&nbsp; It was a great setpiece, but it took hours to navigate through, lol.I recall a lot of early D&amp;D traps really didn't come down to die rolls, and were more like playing Dragon's Lair.&nbsp; &quot;Oh you made a bad choice, you die.&nbsp; Maybe you'll do better next time.&quot;&nbsp; It was fun at the time, but I don't think dusting off my copies of Grimtooth's Traps would go over so well now, lol.The bottom line is, as traps are now, they're too simple and don't really engage the players.&nbsp; Making them deadlier doesn't make them more interesting, just raises the stakes on whether or not the group has the luck and skills to deal with it.&nbsp; And all that will do is force people to optimize their way beyond traps, which can lead to the kind of &quot;arms race&quot; that is a plague on the game.If you make them more complex though, it leads to the Shadowrun &quot;Decker problem&quot;, where more of the focus is placed on a few characters, while the rest stand around, unless you make each one a team effort, which not only takes time, but begs the question of why there's never goblins shooting at you while you and your mates are navigating some complex puzzle that really would work better in three-dimensional space, like, say, video game puzzles.It just feels (to me) like the juice isn't worth the squeeze.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 9335151, member: 6877472"] I'm sure some people have fun with traps, but they've always felt like a burden. Mostly because traps are fairly binary. It's like a flowchart. Did you notice the trap? N? Take damage/trip an alarm/have progress slowed or stopped. Y? Great, does anyone have the skill to remove the trap? N? Try to find another route or go back to "take damage" etc.. Y? Great, make a die roll. Was it high enough? Proceed. N? Go back to "take damage". Cinematic traps, where you have to figure out clues sound like fun, until I've run one, and then it comes down to "make a die roll or use player knowledge". Complex "National Treasure" death traps where the party has to work together? Worked better was a 4e style "skill challenge", but it's not the kind of thing I'd want to use often. The best use for traps I found was during a combat- in an Eberron game I was playing in, we were in a Warforged construction facility (I think the droid factory sequence in Attack of the Clones inspired this) and while we were dealing with guards, we'd have to interact with very deadly aspects of the factory that basically functioned like traps. It was a great setpiece, but it took [B]hours[/B] to navigate through, lol. I recall a lot of early D&D traps really didn't come down to die rolls, and were more like playing Dragon's Lair. "Oh you made a bad choice, you die. Maybe you'll do better next time." It was fun at the time, but I don't think dusting off my copies of Grimtooth's Traps would go over so well now, lol. The bottom line is, as traps are now, they're too simple and don't really engage the players. Making them deadlier doesn't make them more interesting, just raises the stakes on whether or not the group has the luck and skills to deal with it. And all that will do is force people to optimize their way beyond traps, which can lead to the kind of "arms race" that is a plague on the game. If you make them more complex though, it leads to the Shadowrun "Decker problem", where more of the focus is placed on a few characters, while the rest stand around, unless you make each one a team effort, which not only takes time, but begs the question of why there's never goblins shooting at you while you and your mates are navigating some complex puzzle that really would work better in three-dimensional space, like, say, video game puzzles. It just feels (to me) like the juice isn't worth the squeeze. [/QUOTE]

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