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Message: <blockquote data-quote="coyote6" data-source="post: 2625276" data-attributes="member: 1225">I have to agree w/Vraille's basic idea -- why not add a special ability to the war troll? Either leave it as a giant, with a "gets +1 base attack per HD rather than 3/4ths" special ability, or make it a monstrous humanoid and give it "SQ: Troll blooded -- War trolls count as trolls (and thus as giants) for all purposes". Yeah, that effectively gives them two types, but I don't think that's a horrible thing. I do. Barbarian levels are especially fun.My players know the joy of hearing, "The _X_ rages" (with _X_ having values of "hill giant", "ogre", "lizardfolk", "grimlock", etc.). Great fun! Also fun: "The imp feints, and then sneak attacks you with his stinger."I've thought about adding a level of barbarian to a dragon . . .I agree, this is problematic. It is especially problematic for the poor humans, elves, orcs, and other humanoids, that have nowhere else to get their CR, except from class levels. At least frost giants have the "associated levels" concept to help.</blockquote>