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Warblade and Swordsage: Overpowered?
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<blockquote data-quote="Nail" data-source="post: 3169231" data-attributes="member: 224"><p>A player of mine has asked to play either a <strong>Warblade</strong> or <strong>Swordsage</strong> (from the WotC book: Tome of Battle - the Book of Nine Swords). I'm wondering what the general opinion is on these classes.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: Cyan">Swordsage:</span></strong></p><p>The swordsage seems to have a mis-print in their skill points per level. It should be 4 pts per level, not 6, right?</p><p></p><p>If we compare Swordsage (SS) to Mnk, the SS has the adaptability, via it's maneuvers and</p><p>stances, to overcome almost any weakness it may have. The Mnk, OTOH, has abilities that are fixed, and it's awfully easy to build a poor Mnk. Both get average BAB, and the Mnk gets a better Fort save. But as for class abilities, the SS has the Mnk beat, hands down. It gets *lots* of maneuvers and stances. And AC favors the SS over Mnk.</p><p></p><p>****************</p><p><strong><span style="color: Cyan">Warblade:</span></strong></p><p>Comparing the Ftr to the WB:</p><p>[code]Ftr WB</p><p>d10 HD d12 HD</p><p>Good BAB Good BAB</p><p>Good Fort, Poor Ref & Will Good Fort, Poor Ref & Will</p><p>2 skill pts/lvl 4 skill pts/lvl</p><p>Skills: Skills:</p><p> Climb, Craft, Balance, Climb,</p><p> Handle Animal, Concentration, Craft,</p><p> Intimidate, Jump, Diplomacy, Intimidate,</p><p> Know(local), Jump, Know(History),</p><p> Ride, Swim Know(local), </p><p> Martial Lore, Swim,</p><p> Tumble</p><p>Class Abilities: Class Abilities:</p><p> 1 bonus feat/2 lvls Maneuvers & Stances,</p><p> Battle Clarity(1st),</p><p> Weapon Aptitude(1st),</p><p> Uncanny Dodge(2nd),</p><p> Battle Ardor(3rd)</p><p> Bonus Feats(5th, 9th, 13th, 17th),</p><p> Imp. Uncanny Dodge(6th),</p><p> Battle Cunning(7th),</p><p> Battle Skill(11th),</p><p> Battle Mastery(15th),</p><p> Stance Mastery(20th).[/code]</p><p>Comments:</p><p> **The WB has a better skill list and skill points than the fighter. The tumble skill alone is worth the whole fighter list.</p><p></p><p> **In some campaigns, Weapon aptitude is huge. Not only can you take the Weapon Specialization feats (which normally only a Ftr can take), but you can shift that Weapon Focus feat to whatever weapon you happen to have on hand. </p><p></p><p> **The "Battle" class abilities are good stuff, but not over-the-top. It makes the WB's Int score important. Does the Ftr have anything to match this? Feats, I guess. But....</p><p></p><p> **The maneuvers and stances are what “match” the Ftr bonus feats. And given my read through, they at least tie the Ftr bonus feats in power. They are very _cool_ abilities, and I can't wait to see 'em in practice. But these things are not just “sub-“feats. Each is the equivalent to a spell or psionic ability. I guess my main question here is: "What does the WB lose to gain the "Battle" abilities and the maneuvers and stances?"</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Nail, post: 3169231, member: 224"] A player of mine has asked to play either a [B]Warblade[/B] or [B]Swordsage[/B] (from the WotC book: Tome of Battle - the Book of Nine Swords). I'm wondering what the general opinion is on these classes. [B][COLOR=Cyan]Swordsage:[/COLOR][/B] The swordsage seems to have a mis-print in their skill points per level. It should be 4 pts per level, not 6, right? If we compare Swordsage (SS) to Mnk, the SS has the adaptability, via it's maneuvers and stances, to overcome almost any weakness it may have. The Mnk, OTOH, has abilities that are fixed, and it's awfully easy to build a poor Mnk. Both get average BAB, and the Mnk gets a better Fort save. But as for class abilities, the SS has the Mnk beat, hands down. It gets *lots* of maneuvers and stances. And AC favors the SS over Mnk. **************** [B][COLOR=Cyan]Warblade:[/COLOR][/B] Comparing the Ftr to the WB: [code]Ftr WB d10 HD d12 HD Good BAB Good BAB Good Fort, Poor Ref & Will Good Fort, Poor Ref & Will 2 skill pts/lvl 4 skill pts/lvl Skills: Skills: Climb, Craft, Balance, Climb, Handle Animal, Concentration, Craft, Intimidate, Jump, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Know(local), Jump, Know(History), Ride, Swim Know(local), Martial Lore, Swim, Tumble Class Abilities: Class Abilities: 1 bonus feat/2 lvls Maneuvers & Stances, Battle Clarity(1st), Weapon Aptitude(1st), Uncanny Dodge(2nd), Battle Ardor(3rd) Bonus Feats(5th, 9th, 13th, 17th), Imp. Uncanny Dodge(6th), Battle Cunning(7th), Battle Skill(11th), Battle Mastery(15th), Stance Mastery(20th).[/code] Comments: **The WB has a better skill list and skill points than the fighter. The tumble skill alone is worth the whole fighter list. **In some campaigns, Weapon aptitude is huge. Not only can you take the Weapon Specialization feats (which normally only a Ftr can take), but you can shift that Weapon Focus feat to whatever weapon you happen to have on hand. **The "Battle" class abilities are good stuff, but not over-the-top. It makes the WB's Int score important. Does the Ftr have anything to match this? Feats, I guess. But.... **The maneuvers and stances are what “match” the Ftr bonus feats. And given my read through, they at least tie the Ftr bonus feats in power. They are very _cool_ abilities, and I can't wait to see 'em in practice. But these things are not just “sub-“feats. Each is the equivalent to a spell or psionic ability. I guess my main question here is: "What does the WB lose to gain the "Battle" abilities and the maneuvers and stances?" [/QUOTE]
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