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Warblade and Swordsage: Overpowered?
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<blockquote data-quote="brehobit" data-source="post: 3170521" data-attributes="member: 12032"><p>So is the warblade better than the fighter? I'd have to say "yes, by a bunch". Heck the swordsage is a better fighter than a fighter. At 5th level you can toss off a 6d6 (usually 10' radius) fireball once per fight, do 2d6 sneak attack (every round) and add your Wis to your AC in light armor. Oh, you also have 6 skill points/level. </p><p></p><p>The fighter gets +2 BAB, +5 hps, and 3 feats. The feats are mighty handy, but the sword sage gets weapon focus in a SET of weapons (worth 1.5 feats I'd say), +2 to init (worth .5 feats?) and gets to add WIS to damage some of the time (worth between .5 and 1 feats depending on how high of stats you have). So the sword sage has 2.5-3 (good) feats, plus two good saves vs. one. So I'd say all the fighter has over the swordsage is the +2 BAB (significant) and +5 hit points (a feat at best). </p><p></p><p>And all of this ignore the all but one of the maneuvers of the sword sage. He could be able to do each of the following 1/fight:</p><p></p><p>* Make a concentration check vs. target's AC. If successful, target takes +1d6 damage and is flatfooted (So +2d6 more due to the sneak attack) (Swift)</p><p></p><p>* Turn inviso for your action only (again the +2d6 damage AND no AoO) (swift)</p><p></p><p>* teleport 50' as a standard action. (apparently all day)</p><p></p><p>* Do +2d6 damage and overcome all hardness and DR (part of attack, standard action)</p><p></p><p>* get a touch attack to do 4d6 fire damage as an immediate action against anyone who hits you.</p><p></p><p>(Fireball already mentioned)</p><p></p><p>That is gross.</p><p></p><p>Example:</p><p></p><p>6th level sword sage:</p><p>32-point buy:</p><p>halfling swordsage.</p><p></p><p>Str 8</p><p>Int 10</p><p>Wis 14</p><p>Dex 21</p><p>Con 14</p><p>Chr 8</p><p></p><p>AC: 24 (+5 +1 chain shirt, +2 Wis, +1 size, +5 DEX, +1 natural)</p><p>feats:</p><p>Shadow blade (1st)</p><p>Weapon finesse (3rd)</p><p>EWP: spiked chain (6th)</p><p></p><p>Attack bonus: +12 (+4 BAB, +5 DEX, +1 magic, +1 size, +1 weapon focus) </p><p>Damage: d6 + 6 (+1 magic, +5 DEX) +2d6 (sneak attack) +2 (Wis if using shadow strike)</p><p>Has a 10' reach.</p><p></p><p>That's a heck of an AC and a LOT of damage. As good of damage as a raging barbarian? Nope. As good of an AC as a pure tank fighter? Really close (Full plate +1, Heavy shield +1, amulet +1 and Dex +1 is also AC 24) and the sword sage damage is better... (The tank likely has STR 16 and weapon specialization so d8+5 damage and two attacks at +11/+6 or so)</p><p></p><p>And he can do all of the actions listed above in addition to being nearly as good in pure combat as the tank-fighter...</p><p></p><p>Total spent on magic items:</p><p>+1 chain shirt (1300), +1 spiked chain (2,325), +1 amulet of natural armor (1000) so 4,800ish. </p><p></p><p>Mark</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="brehobit, post: 3170521, member: 12032"] So is the warblade better than the fighter? I'd have to say "yes, by a bunch". Heck the swordsage is a better fighter than a fighter. At 5th level you can toss off a 6d6 (usually 10' radius) fireball once per fight, do 2d6 sneak attack (every round) and add your Wis to your AC in light armor. Oh, you also have 6 skill points/level. The fighter gets +2 BAB, +5 hps, and 3 feats. The feats are mighty handy, but the sword sage gets weapon focus in a SET of weapons (worth 1.5 feats I'd say), +2 to init (worth .5 feats?) and gets to add WIS to damage some of the time (worth between .5 and 1 feats depending on how high of stats you have). So the sword sage has 2.5-3 (good) feats, plus two good saves vs. one. So I'd say all the fighter has over the swordsage is the +2 BAB (significant) and +5 hit points (a feat at best). And all of this ignore the all but one of the maneuvers of the sword sage. He could be able to do each of the following 1/fight: * Make a concentration check vs. target's AC. If successful, target takes +1d6 damage and is flatfooted (So +2d6 more due to the sneak attack) (Swift) * Turn inviso for your action only (again the +2d6 damage AND no AoO) (swift) * teleport 50' as a standard action. (apparently all day) * Do +2d6 damage and overcome all hardness and DR (part of attack, standard action) * get a touch attack to do 4d6 fire damage as an immediate action against anyone who hits you. (Fireball already mentioned) That is gross. Example: 6th level sword sage: 32-point buy: halfling swordsage. Str 8 Int 10 Wis 14 Dex 21 Con 14 Chr 8 AC: 24 (+5 +1 chain shirt, +2 Wis, +1 size, +5 DEX, +1 natural) feats: Shadow blade (1st) Weapon finesse (3rd) EWP: spiked chain (6th) Attack bonus: +12 (+4 BAB, +5 DEX, +1 magic, +1 size, +1 weapon focus) Damage: d6 + 6 (+1 magic, +5 DEX) +2d6 (sneak attack) +2 (Wis if using shadow strike) Has a 10' reach. That's a heck of an AC and a LOT of damage. As good of damage as a raging barbarian? Nope. As good of an AC as a pure tank fighter? Really close (Full plate +1, Heavy shield +1, amulet +1 and Dex +1 is also AC 24) and the sword sage damage is better... (The tank likely has STR 16 and weapon specialization so d8+5 damage and two attacks at +11/+6 or so) And he can do all of the actions listed above in addition to being nearly as good in pure combat as the tank-fighter... Total spent on magic items: +1 chain shirt (1300), +1 spiked chain (2,325), +1 amulet of natural armor (1000) so 4,800ish. Mark [/QUOTE]
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