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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HeapThaumaturgist" data-source="post: 3187047" data-attributes="member: 12332">I think the full-attack-while-recharging is sort of a drop in the bucket at this point.When we line up the Warblade vs. the Fighter, this is where I think the Warblade creates problems:* Higher HD* More Skill Points* Better Skill Selection* Access to "Fighter-Only" Feats* Improvements to "Fighter-Only" Feats that the Fighter doesn't get* Additional Class abilities, some worth feats in-and-of-themselves* Nearly half the number of Bonus Feats of the Fighter* Stances worth a feat apiece, possibly more in some cases.* Maneuvers worth a feat apiece, possibly more in some cases.* Counters and Boosts, which are aren't something the Fighter really has access to."Mang, them full attacks be the bomb-diggity." is sort of irrelevant ... in fact, I think saying:  "But many maneuvers don't allow for a Full Attack." is also largely irrelevant.  I've played a melee combatant from 3rd-15th level at this point, and I RARELY find myself in the position to perform a full attack.  I can buff and bash a full attack with the best of them, but here are the issues:* On even a slightly dynamic battlefield, people are rarely within a 5' step of your beatstick.* If the badguy has placed himself into a position where he will be Full Attacked, it often means he's ready to suck up that full attack and dish out his own.* If you have placed yourself into a position to Full Attack, you're in a position to suck up a Full Attack from the guy you want to wail on.* At levels where "The Full Attack Action" begin to show up, even for full BAB characters, you're fighting creatures who are specifically designed A) To survive one or more full attacks from multiple characters and B) Have the Strength and HD to make their own Full Attack as nasty or MORE nasty than your Fighter-type.The Full Attack is not a magic cure-all where monsters explode because "The Fighter" has assaulted them with his "Feats".  What "Feats" are these that cause all of the monsters to drop over dead with a Full Attack?  Power Attack?  PA ups your damage at the expense of your attack bonus, and your Full Attack is at progressively lower attack bonuses ... meaning when you Power Attack you're trading more damage for fewer hits.  I can't recall too many feats that are useful for Full Attacks that aren't stand-alone or very short chains, so I don't see where "Feats" make "Full Attacks" the ultimate weapon in the Fighter arsenal any more than the full attack and a few good feats can be strapped onto a Warblade or a Swordsage or a Monk.Now, if the D&D Podcast folks are saying that these classes are overpowered, and they are.  "Don't measure them against the melee classes, measure them against the spellcasting classes."  That's saying:  "Yea, it's a power creep, but look ... SHINY NEW CLASSES!"I'd have rather seen Tome of Battle introduce this stuff with feats for Fighters, alternate class ability progressions for Monks, Feats for Monks that allow them to trade our class abilities for new ToB stuff, things that allow the Barbarian and the Paladin to access ToB maneuvers, etc ...THAT would have been good design.  Granting that spellcasters have become more powerful than the melee classes in the game, "fixing" that isn't unofficially scrapping the melee classes and building suped-up new classes to replace them.  FIXING the issue is offering some more stuff for the existing melee classes.It's paramount to saying:  "Polymorph is broken, so we're going to introduce a whole new system of magic based around Polymorph so that all spellcasting is equal in level to Polymorph and just as difficult to adjudicate ... and we'll add in some brand new classes that are more powerful than the Wizard and Sorcerer that do everything the sorcerer and wizard do, but better and with more skills."--fje</blockquote>

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