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Message: <blockquote data-quote="charlesatan" data-source="post: 3189828" data-attributes="member: 20870">Flavor-wise, they have this Asian feel to it (much like the monk). Whether it's grouped there with Shugenja and Wu-Jen's and Samurai's (there's an underpowered class no one's complaining about) is up to you, but on the other hand, I can also envision it part of the regular D&D world (we have monks in the PHB don't we?).As for the other classes, I think they stand well on their own even with martial adepts in the game. Monks and Rangers are significantly different from the typical Fighter archetype, and Barbarians, Fighters, Paladins definitely still have a use despite the existence of Warblades, for example.Uh, martial adepts are quite similar to spellcasters. The maneuver progression (1st-9th level maneuvers), the fact that they're expended (you don't use the same maneuver consecutively for example), among other things. Of course they're not as powerful as spells of the same level, but they're recoverable, linked often to melee attacks, and most go through SR. So it's spell-like but not quite spells.Uh, even if you removed Natural Spell, a Druid would still be powerful. Actually spells in itself are powerful. I mean a 20th-level, you're dealing 20d6 damage to an area (lots of targets). Or Meteor Swarm with a ranged touch attack, dealing as much as 24d6 damage to a single target plus some collateral damage.How do non-spellcasters compete with that in terms of damage output? And if you're gonna compare that to maneuvers, even they don't deal that much damage, at least consecutively (sure, you have the 9th-level desert wind maneuver but that's it).Martial adepts aren't broken. They're powerful, yes, but they're also not as powerful as spells. Again, even maneuvers don't deal 20d6 damage automatically. And you have to consider that 1) martial adepts can't perform the same attack consecutively except on certain occassions, 2) most of the maneuvers are linked to an attack (and it's not even a touch attack... has it ever occured to you that you'd actually miss, even with Fighter BAB?), and 3) you're melee.</blockquote>

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