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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Perun" data-source="post: 3193487" data-attributes="member: 6037">Reading this thread and looking at Nail's original compariosn between the two classes made me realise that there's no real point (IMO) in comparing the two, even if I was one of the people who originally asked for comparison. The number of options for both classes (with fighter's having a slight advantage) is staggering, and you can build a large number of different characters even when using same race, stats, and books. For example, one could build an archer fighter specialised in high-Str composite longbow. Who could then, theoretically, pester the warblade from a couple of hundred of feet away. Or a tripper or disarmer of... well you get the idea. Limiting the options invariably eventually favours one class.It's kind of like comparing wizard vs. sorcerer vs. warrmage... each has its strengths and weaknesses, and each is good at one thing.For curiosity's sake, what do you consider to be good out-of-combat skills?He can be out-damaged by the barbarian. But that's pretty much it. Paladins and rangers aren't nearly as effective in combat.Most classes have their roles picked for them (depending on their BAB, saves, class skills, and skill points available). While a bard isn't overly effective in a regular combat-heavy game, he's all but irreplaceable in an intrigue/diplomacy-heavy game.This is the key statement, actually -- "in my experience". And that's what it all boils down to. It's all about game style and personal preferences. I play a 13th-level druid in one of our games, and he's a decent character, good at surviving. But, it's a power-heavy group, with a beefed-up cleric, 30+ Int wizard, and a psychic warrior (well, there's also a scout, but he doesn't have much of an impact on the actual game), and my druid is good for some boosting and occasional grapple -- others outshine him (this doesn't mean he's not a powerful character -- just that he doesn't have much opportunity to shine in that game). And I've had to work real hard to keep up, power-level wise. Other characters have normal higher-level character seets. My "sheet" is a 2,5-cm-thick amount of paper (various spells form different books, wild shape forms, etc.). In another campaign, we had two wizards, a archer-ranger, and a 10 Str, Dex, and Con druidess with a wolf animal companion and Augment Summoning feat. Due to the lack of any real meleers in that group, she was the goddess of battle. I also played a sorcerer in a group withou other arcanists, and he was an excellent character. If the party also had a wizard, his role would be much different, and his toes would be much stepped on <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" />I odn't know whether you'll fid this persuasive, but fighters are, as even you said earlier, generalist combatants. Barbarians will, in all likelyhood, deal more brute force damage and last longer in combat than most (if not all) other melee classes. Warblades might be more effective in certain situations, depending on their manoeuvres known (which they can get locked into at higher levels, because of prerequisites) and manoeuvres readied.But fighter can be a good combatant (excellent attac bonus, good damage, very good AC), while at the same time being a tripper, disarmer, archer and pretty much whatever else he desires. Also, as was already pointed out, all of his options are available to him at all times, no need to prepare anything.He can also be a specialist -- the only way to build the best archer is by going fighter. Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialisation, Greater Weapon Specialisation, Ranged Weapon Mastery, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Greater Manyshot, Ranged Disarm, Ranged Pin, Ranged Sunder, Improved Rapid Shot, Penetrating Shot... That's 15 feats so far. A figher gets 18 feats over 20 levels (without the human bonus feat).It makes for an extremely focused character, of course, but it's the bestest <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> archer out there.Regards.</blockquote>

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