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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HeapThaumaturgist" data-source="post: 3202155" data-attributes="member: 12332">To be honest, though, I've never really found where TWF has been especially noteworthy for any other than a rogue.  You've GOT to have feats like Oversized TWF and TWPounce to even get into the running.I think, also, the fact that the Warblade can do this one-handed should be noted.  At low levels, 1-3, a shield is 1-2 more AC.  At mid levels 3-4, PLUS the shield allows for an additional set of armor-related special enchantments at a cheaper cost.  Once we get into the higher levels, the floaty-shield lowers the AC change, but there's cost issues involved as well, since +2 worth of gold is going to keeping the thing in the air while the warblade has since strapped Arrow Deflection or another 2 points of AC on there or something similar.Additionally, even with several feats plugged into the build and assuming full attack (which is just not as real-world likely as I think people assume), the Warblade in there is still dealing MORE damage, and more quickly.  His damage is greater AND it is frontloaded.  Both of these characters are heavily optimized, in terms of character resources, and I think it still gives some gifts to the fighter ... assumption of a full attack, assumption of a lower-AC enemy.  Low-AC/High-HP/Low-Damage monsters favor full attacks ... you can stand next to them, you can hit them with the lower attack bonuses of the iterative attacks, and they survive long enough to get in the damage.For instance, if we instead say that the TWF Fighter and the Warblade are approaching a 5th level Wizard (Dex 14, Con 14, Mage Armor, Shield up, AC 20 and 24hp) the Warblade has a good chance of blowing him out of the water in a single move+Insightful Strike, while the TWF guy has his damage output significantly decreased ... there's not going to be 2 rounds of Full Attacks from either warrior.  If the Wizard survives the first assault of either one, he's going to be getting the hell out of the way.  The TWF guy can chase him around the battlefield for a few rounds.  This is, also, generally why TWF sucks for everybody other than the rogue.  The rogue tumbles into flanking and tries to get two stabs in the next round and finish the job.  The rogue doesn't stand around for three rounds making full attacks on the dragon because the dragon is going to punt him and have a few attacks left over for the Fighter.Even when we're all but throwing the fight for the Fighter, he still just gets "close" but he's STILL out-performed.  When we're assuming high-HP, low-AC, low-attack monsters that are just ripe for the picking with a full attack ... then the fighter gets aaaaaaaaaaaalmost there.     Larger issue, though, this just one choice among several choices the warblade player can make.  While they both dumped all of their feats into their "builds" the warblade gets additional choices in Stance and Maneuvers ... taking the save maneuvers is great, especially for the guy tweaking the Concentration check but the stance is pretty much gravy for him.  Those saves are far beyond anything the Fighter can get.  The stance is beyond what the fighter has.  Busting straight out on the home stretch in a prime set-up just for him using everything he has ... the fighter catches up in damage while falling behind on every other level. --fje</blockquote>

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